[1.4.9] Issue with sustain pedal when muting layers

I have an issue when muting layers. If I hit the mute button on a layer whilst the sustain pedal is down, the sound is muted immediately as expected. However, the next time I unmute that layer, the notes that were sustained recommence playing.

Example, if I hit a G chord on the piano with sustain down, then mute that piano layer, if I unmute a few bars later the notes from the G chord return at their level at the moment the mute was hit. Depending on the instrument, they may fade away naturally or remain playing until the layer receives a sustain off MIDI message.

This is causing problems with chords sounding unexpectedly when unmuting layers if I’m not extremely careful to release the sustain pedal when muting.

I’m fairly sure that Layer Mute is on the audio channel, not midi.

Depends on the Audio/MIDI switch I guess.
In any case, we will add the “All Notes Off” operation when a Layer is muted.

My bad, you’re right of course

I get the same behaviour regardless of whether the layer is set to audio or midi. If the layer is muted whilst notes are sustained, those same notes are resurrected when the layer is unmuted again.

These phantom notes are very resilient. I can change parts or load a different song. If I then return the the first song and unmute that layer, those notes are awaiting for me. I’ve been caught out a couple of times playing live when a layer blasts out the last sustained chord from a previous song when I unmute it at some later time.

Hi @CliveJ and @ibarch,

we could reproduce the problem and it has been fixed now. Please try it with the next Pre-Release (Friday).

See you,
Michael.

Hi Michael,
I’ve just tested this on v1.4.13 and unfortunately it is not fixed. Here are the steps to reproduce,

  1. Assign a string pad to a layer.
  2. Hold the sustain pedal down and play a chord.
  3. Let go of the keys but keep the sustain pedal down.
  4. Mute the layer and the sound is cut instantly
  5. Let go of the sustain pedal.
  6. Unmute the layer. The original chord resumes playing without touching the keys
  7. Press the sustain pedal down and up to send the Sustain pedal up message and the chord finally stops.

The same result occurs with the MIDI/Audio switch in either state.

I’ve tested this on a new project, with 3 separate parts, one with an Omnisphere pad, one with a Halion Sonic Pad and one with a Roland Zenology pad. on Windows 11 with VST3 plugins. Interestingly, the Halion Sonic pad works fine but both the non-Steinberg VSTs show the issue.

The midi monitor is showing the same messages in all cases,
Sustain down (CC 64, value 127)
Sustain Up (CC 64, value 0)
There are no Note On/Off message being generated when the mute button or sustain pedal is used.

Hi,

we’ve tested it with HALion Sonic. And as you can confirm, it works with that instrument. And it does not work with Roland Zenology? We’ll check: Maybe it needs one more message to stop Sustain.

Michael.

Yes. It doesn’t seem to work with any other the other VSTs I’ve tried, just Halion Sonic.
It definitely doesn’t work with Roland Zenology.

Thanks for the quick response again. Appreciate your help.

… sorry for the delay. Fixed. VST Live also has to send a “Reset All Controllers” MIDI Event. Ready for the next Update.

/Michael.

Hi,
I’ve tested with the latest 1.4.51 version and the issue is still there for non-Halion VST files. I have a video that may help.

  1. I play a chord and then put the sustain pedal down
  2. I let go of the notes
  3. I mute the channel whilst keeping the sustain pedal depressed. The chord still plays
  4. I release the pedal and the sound stops
  5. I unmute the channel and the sound starts up at the level where the mute was originally set, even through no new notes have been played.
  6. Depressing and releasing the pedal finally clears the chord for good.

… sorry, @ibarch. The last fix was not “good” enough. We improved the fix for the next Pre-Release. Please try again and let us know if it’s now working for you, too.

/Michael.

Much improved in 1.4.52.

No issue at all with Omnisphere

Zenology is a bit weird. If you take the mute off within a few seconds, before a patch has completely died away, it does start back up, but at reduced volume from when the mute was originally applied. If you wait till the pad has completely finished its release then no sound returns when unmuted.

This may not be perfect but it is more than good enough for me. It is usually some time before I unmute a layer again. For example I may mute a layer in a verse and unmute for the chorus, so there is plenty of time before the chorus comes round again for the original pad to have completely ended.

Thanks for all efforts on resolving this issue., You may think it a small thing but it makes a big difference in performances, to remove that risk of a sudden loud pad appearing out of nowhere when I unmute it’s layer.

Cheers,