4.5 beta, slice player and randomize midi dump issue?

Unfortunately I have tried to roll back to Halion 4.0/4.01, but there is no uninstaller for the 4.5 update. I have come across some behavior that was not present in the original release of Halion 4. In the original release of Halion 4, when dealing with the splice player, one could enable the random function, set the desired depth, click the trigger button then drag and drop this randomized[/i] midi pattern directly into Cubase by clicking and dragging on the midi icon present beside the pattern number field.

Halion 4.5 does not work this way, can anyone confirm?

Now, when I enable random, set the desired depth, click the trigger button and drag and drop the randomized pattern into Cubase, it does not dump the randomized pattern, but the original, unrandomized pattern. I relied on the slice function in how it worked before the 4.5 beta, now it is completely unusable. I can hear the randomized pattern if I click on any notes below C3 since that is where the slices start for the loop, but I cannot drag this randomized pattern that I am hearing into Cubase like I could before.

The slices move in order from C3, C#3, D3, D#3, E etc…

When I used the random function and dumped the midi patterns they would show as follows (for example purposes only)… C3, G3, D#3, C3 etc…basically randomized and not a straight pattern like the midi dumps look like if random is disabled.

I have loaded up tracks made in Halion 4.0 and sure enough the midi dumps are randomized and viewable as so. I know this because I would never think of programming some of the variations Halion 4 came up with using the random function and I have the midi notes present as they were dumped for me to see. If I try and dump fresh randomizations in this same project with Halion 4.5 now loaded, the randomized patterns do not dump at all.

Can anyone confirm? I really, really, REALLY need this function to work as it used to as it has really allowed me to get some creative drum edits I would otherwise never have come up with.

I have tried changing all the quantize settings etc, but to no avail. I never needed to play with these settings in the past either when the random dumpings worked before the 4.5 update. Cubase quantize settings etc do nothing either to help remedy this.

If there is something I am missing, something that needs to be changed, a preference etc, please do let me know as this has completely blocked my workflow from taking place. If this is an issue, I hope it at least gets acknowledged so I can stop pulling out my hair and wait for a fix.

Thanks for reading, hope someone chimes in.

Hi Cantankerous

Sorry have not an answer for randomize, and sorry to here you having probs with your project.

You should be able to uninstall Halion4 and reinstall it should overwrite, or just install 4.0 again then 4.1 and see if it comes up with the little beta sign in the top lefthand corner if the beta sign is gone the you have over writ it, but it should over write,

If this does not work you can remove all of H4 installation by prompting it from the C drive or what ever drive you have it on, then click Halion4 upgrade, then click the 64bit or 34bit the one you have installed, it will ask you if you want to repair, modify, or remove installation, then you can install a fresh H4





novaburst









novaburst

Thanks a lot for your reply and instructions, it is appreciated. Uninstalling and reinstalling Halion 4 is a last resort. I am really worried about the massive library of VST Presets I created for Halion 4 and what may go wrong with them should I uninstall and reinstall. 4.5 of Halion brings the brilliant browser tab and the timestretching which I now cannot live without. I cannot live without my randomized slice player patterns not dumping as midi data as previous versions of Halion 4 did either, I really am stuck here.

I am hoping someone can chime in with a confirmation, explanation on what I may be doing wrong etc before I decide what I am going to do. If it is a known issue that will be fixed, I will wait for said fix. I know for a fact I used to get different midi pattern dumpings when using the randomize function of the slice player in previous version of Halion 4 than I am now after the 4.5 update. Something is amiss and it has completely changed the way I was used to working and I no longer get results I was expecting.

I can confirm your finding. Something seems to got broken in the HALion 4.5 public beta.

best regards
Gerrit

THANK YOU GERRIT! Your reply means an awful lot me. I am glad to know I am not going crazy and alone in this. Were you an avid user of the slice player/randomize function in the previous version of Halion 4 to be able to compare the differences?

You put in the time to check this out for me, I hope Steinberg notices this and can issue a fix. I really miss this function.

Thanks again, really, I was worried I would get no such reply in this.

I was in touch with a friend last night who also owns Halion 4 and he mentioned that he had not yet tried the 4.5 beta and was going to wait till the full thing is released before updating. I asked him to try out the dumping of randomized midi notes from the slice player and he confirmed everything worked as should in 4.0, just as I remember it working before I updated to 4.5. He mentioned that the higher he raised the density, the more ‘all over the place’ as he put it, the midi notes looked once dumped into Cubase. He said they certainly weren’t placed linearly one after the other like they do unrandomized OR how they are in the 4.5 update despite density choosing! I explained to him what was happening to me and he said he certainly won’t try 4.5 now as he also enjoys this function and it is clearly working as should in 4.0, but not 4.5.

This is another confirmation that the dumping of randomized midi notes from the slice player has become broken in the 4.5beta update. He is not a message board/forum kind of guy and never posts in these kinds of places. I am simply relaying our discussion last night on the matter.

Is anyone at Steinberg coming across this? Can it be flagged as a confirmed bug and assigned a case # so I can look forward to a fix?

Thanks.

Same problem here, but now i did try the midi density plugin and you can get also good results.
greets kiwi

Thanks for your reply and confirmation kiwi that this issue is also happening for you. I appreciate your time in trying this and posting your results. This is now 4 people confirming something is broken with the dumping of randomized midi notes in the slice player.

The density midi plugin does not yield the same results as the above function working as it should and use to before the 4.5 update, but thanks for the suggestion.

Confirming randomize to MIDI doesn’t work here as well.

Thank you very much for your confirmation Whirly, I do appreciate it.

Another question regarding the slice player: how do I enable variation on a imported sliced loop?

I have sliced a drum loop using Cubase, dropped the loop in an empty program slot, confirmed the ‘import sliced loop’ option. The loop play back as normal until I choose variation 2-8. When choosing variation 2-8 it’s nothing but silence. I have noticed that the start and end parameters are showing 0 and I’m unable to enter a new value so I get the feeling that the slice player is not detecting the loop on these variations.

It’s probably simple, but what am I missing?

I have noticed this behavior as well, though never really looked too much into it. What I did when the randomize feature was working properly when dumping midi notes, was just get the loop to sound the way I want, dump, randomize and tweak some more, dump etc. I would dump a bunch of variations I liked, then cut and paste the parts I liked together to create new bars. The randomize feature would come up with some great edits I would never come up with on my own and if you take the time to cut and paste sections at a time you can get some really great results. This is why the dumping of randomized midi notes is so important to me. If this feature doesn’t work I am left dumping the original loop as is and having to painstakingly cut and edit manually which is fine, but I don’t come up with as good sounding variations as I do when the randomize feature works and dumps properly. It really is a great feature when it was working. You can hit the trigger button, get a randomization and hear what the randomization came up with by clicking on the keys below C3 such as C2. This would play the randomized loop while C3 and above are the original slices. If you like what you are auditioning just dump it and off you go. You can still audition the randomized output, but can’t dump what you are hearing, it only dumps the original loop sometimes with very slight edits like lengthening or shorting of the notes, but not the full blown thing like before. It really sucks.

To answer your question anyways, I believe you right click on template 1 and choose copy template. Click on 2-8, right click and choose paste template. I think then you can have each template edited to your liking, but you cannot create 2-8 from scratch, blank, you must copy and paste a working one first being 1. Let me know how you get on.

Spot on! Thanks!

I too hope they fix the midi dump issue. The random variation tool is a brilliant way of coming up with ideas and I foresee using it a lot in the future. However, as long as we’re not able to do necessary edits to the midi phrase it’s only half way.

Thanks a lot for responding so quick.

brgds Vidar

You are most welcome. I agree on not being able to edit the midi events, but this is why I edit later on the already dumped midi data. Since you have no real control within Halion itself, it is nice to dump a bunch of random variations, then simply snap the scissors in Cubase to each beat where you can cut up section of the randomized variations to later paste together to get something you are after. The density control sorta lets you control what is happening, as the higher the density, the more randomized your loop gets. If you only want a very slight change, keep the density low, if you want something really out there, set it higher, dump and mix and match to your pleasure.

I feel this whole thing could be improved upon however, such as being able to dump the midi data to the gate setting etc, which it currently does not do. I am sure you can set a gate setting and have the midi notes shortened as they are dumped to reflect the gating effect.

For now, we just need the dumping issue fixed before discussing anything else. In the future I would like to see further editing possible, even to the flexphraser. I would like to be able to dump the midi notes of the flexphraser patterns much like you dump the midi notes of the slice player by simply dragging and dropping from a midi connector icon right into your DAW.

I have PM’d Marcus in hopes of getting an official response in this thread to seal the deal on this issue being recognized and fixed, hopefully in the very near future. I do not want to roll back to 4.0 and lose the browser and timestretching if at all possible.

I can assure you that Steinberg has noticed it and will fix this issue, but unfortunately not with the upcoming release. Sorry!

best regards
Gerrit

Oh, do you work for Steinberg? I couldn’t tell by your name. Thanks for the info none the less. I am disappointed that I won’t see a fix soon with the upcoming update, but I am glad to know it was been noticed and will be fixed in general. I am extremely anxious for hopefully a patch that focuses on this issue. I can’t work without this working function!

Thanks again.

FINALLY fixed in Halion 4.5.2. Much happier to have this fully functioning now. Such a great feature that couldn’t be used for many long months due to this bug. Thanks Steinberg! Keep it up!