8.5 pro with UAD2 pcie - latency

Cubase
#1

Hi. Thinking of buying a UAD2 octo pcie. Can anyone explain to me how the whole latency thing works?

Am I right in thinking that if I want to play/record a vsti with one of the UAD plugs in the chain - the UAD will add latency (double the setting of my soundcard plus the plugins own latency) unless I chose live mode, in which case the latency will just be that of the plugin.

Is that right?

Does this also happen if I’m using UAD plugs as fx sends rather than inserts?

Any other things I should be aware of ? Asio guard?

I understand that you also need the extra buffer setting checked in order to use the render in place function.

I’m on Cubase 8.5, Windows 7 x64, RME 9632 currently set at 256 samples

Thanks

#2

Hi,

In general, it works the same way, as other plug-ins.

If you apply any plug-in to any track, the track is shifted to the left by the time, the plug-in needs for the processing. THanks to this, the track is stil in perfect sync with other tracks. Of course, it’s not visible for the user, the shift is in the background.

The same happens, when you Insert the plug-in to any FX or Group Channel, and you route the Audio/Instrument track to this FX/Group Channel. The source track is again shifted.

The same is true for the UAD plug-ins. So your tracks will be always in sync.

The only one case, when the track is not shifted is, when the track is in the Record Enable or Monitor Enable Mode. In this case, you cannot shift it (logically).

If you enable Constrain Delay Compensation, all plug-ins, which cannot be processed in the (real) Real-Time, are bypassed. The very good example is the internal Steinberg Compressor. If you enable Live Mode on the Compressor, you can use it even if the Constrain Delay Compensation is enabled. Once you disable the Live Mode on the Compressor, the plug-in is based, once you enable the Constrain Delay Compensation.

#3

The only way of tracking through UAD in real time currently is to use one of their Apollo interfaces which incorporate their ‘Unison’ technology… Lucky @#?+£$%%!!! :wink:

#4

I’m a ‘dry tracker’ usually but if I take down my buffer settings (Fireface UFX) down to 128 + use live mode on UAD plugins it’s simply painless to record through UAD plugins. Not talking of a big load here, say 2 - 6 maybe.

Have used the Studer A800 on the way in sometimes for drumrecordings (15+ tracks with one instance in each input channel), that also worked flawless but I did monitor through TotalMix.

The Apollo/Unison thing really seems to be the most elegant solution if you’re looking for virtual preamping + FX-party on the way in. Universal Audio haven’t got it on Windows yet, so you should have a Mac with Thunderbolt.

#5

Hmmmm not tried this on my current machine yet… will have to give it a go i think!

#6

Thanks for all the replies. Very useful info. The issue for me is more about playing using VSTi’s like Kontakt with plugs on the audio outs. Get really frustrated when there’s latency there when playing. I don’t think Apollo would help with that would it? For tracking of real insts I can use total mix or my analog mixer for monitoring. .

With live mode, do you switch each plug in individually?

#7

Indeed, Apollo won’t help there. At least not as much.

Live mode needs to be enabled for each plug in individually. It also resets to normal when you close/open the project.

#8

Yes Apollo would help even with VSTi because you can have Virtual Channel between Cubase & UAD Console and no latency from monitoring/recording VSTi with UAD plugin insert on UAD console !

#9

Thanks Home studio 87. Didn’t realise that. Anywho, unfortunately I’m on PC with no thunderbolt so no apollo for me :frowning:

#10

There is an Apollo firewire for windows I think.

#11

Yes, I have it! Works good. But console 2.0 is not available for windows yet. But even console 1 has virtual channels and unison technology. Also drivers are only available for windows 7 64bit.

#12

Live Mode does help, however direct monitoring through an Apollo would seem to be a better bet.

The problem with using Total mix is that you cannot monitor guitars properly in that way unless you are micing up a real amp. With an Apollo you can apply a Virtual Amp to the input with delay and reverb as applicable. I had been using Amplitude 3/4 as a standalone and monitoring that through channel 3&4 on Total mix whilst setting up the same patch on a muted track in Cubase. This was because on larger projects the latency of monitoring through Cubase was driving me nuts. Unfortunately since Cubase introduced Asioguard there has been an increased latency for UAD card users.

I ended up getting a Kemper Profiling Amp and that has solved most of these issues for me as well as sounding so much better than Amplitude.However be aware that you can only use UAD software on the Apollo inputs - so you have to use one of their amp sims. I choose not to. For me it was a toss-up as to whether I got an Apollo or a Kemper. The routing options the Kemper offered won me over.

#13

Really? That’s a pain…even when record activating a track?

No joy for apollo with me as I don;t have thunderbolt…

I don’t really fancy firewire - got burnt with TC poco on that one :slight_smile:

#14

There will be a Apollo Twin USB for windows very very soon,I’ve order mine till end 2015 must be here at the end of this month.

#15

Are you a guitarist?

Do you use a standalone amp sim like Amplitude 3/4?

I am assuming you have an RME Soundcard. You can route the standalone into outputs 3&4 and play with negligible latency recording the raw signal into a track of your choice with the same preset loaded. Mute it or you will hear both. However it is quite interesting to see what the latency is like.

I have actually used Guitar Rig to monitor vocals and sax to get a headphone mix for guest musicians using the same method. The efx in Guitar Rig are good it is just the guitar sounds that are bad. Total mix is good for that kind of creativity. An Apollo is not really necessary.

#16

Well I am but my issue is using vsti’s like Kontakt. I like to play them with vst fx across the inserts. With native plugs, i choose low latency ones to help do this. So I’d want ideally to use the UAD plugs the same way.

#17

Kontakt has been problematical with Cubase for a while. I use it a lot - well every project. CPU issues mainly - spiking. I think it is to do with Cubase not allocating cores very efficiently. I often Render In Place when I have what I want. I can’t say that I have noticed any serious latency using it with a keyboard and a number of UAD plugins.

#18

Must admit I’ve not had any cpu issues with K5 and Cubase for quite a while. Got some oddities earlier on in the dev cycle. Crashes and certain libraries doing odd things. Glad to hear you’ve not noticed any major latency issues using the UADs. What buffer setting do you have your RME on? (managed to type “bugger” instead of “buffer”. Thank the lord for proof reading!)

#19

I’m afraid my bugger settings are strictly private!
However, my tracking buffer setting is 64. However I have the extra buffering setting in the UAD control panel turned off. I use 256 when mixing.

#20

LOL. Cool thanks :slight_smile: