A Master Page Index and Combining page types

A couple of questions if that’s OK…

  1. Is it possible to set up a Masterpage that lists a bunch of indented information on one line (e.g. Scene Number, Scene Name, Song Title), all formatted for left alignment, and then have an page index on the same line formatted for right alignment?

  2. It is possible to start First pages on semi-full Default pages?

  1. Not as far as I can tell.
  2. See attached (zipped) Dorico project. Take a look at the extensive set of master pages I’ve constructed - the second page does what you want, I think.
    ML template 040418.zip (443 KB)

To clarify point number 1: You can paste tab characters into Dorico to achieve reliable indentation, so you could get all the left aligned stuff correctly, but there’s no way to pull a page number for a flow, probably because a) it varies from layout to layout and b) flows can turn up in multiple places in the same layout, and can be split across multiple pages.

I frequently work with Piano Vocal scores that have to match CDs/folders of backing tracks and sound effects - I use flowWorkNumber for my Track numbers.

To get left and right alignment, you can also create two separate text frames (like the default ones for lyricist and composer)

Thanks Pianoleo and andgie.

I’ve taken a look at your template and it’s an ingenious solution. If I’ve read it right it’s a new Masterpage that combines Default and First on one page. I assume that’s editable as needs be so that one can adjust for spacing in individual circumstances. Neat solution, I’ll definitely be using that.

I was hoping there was some kind of indexing solution - it seems a pretty logical step with flows established. I wasn’t aware that you could paste tab characters so I’ll try that and depending on how it looks, may well go for separate text frames and thereby get right alignment.

Thanks again. Much appreciated.


For #2, yes, just select that page in the upper right under Pages (it will have a blue border) and click on the Insert Master Page Change Icon ( the 3rd one that looks like this: L|R ), and select the Master Page you want from the drop-down.

Thanks musicmaven, but I can’t get that to work - maybe I’m not doing it right. What I’m looking for is to combine two master pages onto one page; for example the end of a default page followed by a small space and then the start of a First page further down that same page. Pianoleo’s solution works fine and can be edited to any length but being the lazy soul that I am I was hoping there was a neat way to combine them already built into Dorico. I can see reasons why not - page information being duplicated etc. but it’s not an uncommon layout for Vocal Scores, presumably because it saves paper but also because it flows well.

It sounds as if you just want to add a flow title in the middle of a page. Giving us an illustration of what you are looking for would be very helpful.

David, it’s not yet possible to do what you want to do automatically but Daniel’s talked about something that’s internally known as a flow-break that will eventually make it possible to have “front-matter” (title, composer etc.) anywhere on a page, theoretically automatically.

My method is a total pain in the backside to implement initially, but once it’s setup the tweaking is much quicker than manually copying and shifting frames. I spent about four hours today and yesterday laying out a Piano/Vocal score that comprises 105 flows over 140 pages (many of which are just sound effects cues with no actual music whatsoever) and, to be honest, it would’ve been half that if Dorico didn’t grind to a halt every time I tried to nudge a frame.

It’s still way quicker for this than Sibelius, and there’s a great advantage to Dorico being able to store titles and cues for music-less flows, which is that ALL of this information is stored in Project Info fields. This means that if this show gets orchestrated the information is already in the right places for the band parts (although there’s still some manual layout work to do.)

I suspect in that situation I’d probably be lazy and resort to having just three master pages - one First, one Default and one extra that has a new flow starting halfway down. After all, the band really don’t need to know about the many sound effects cues!

It’s true this isn’t automated at the present, but all you have to do is adjust the music frame to just contain the end (of the first movement), then draw in a new music frame where you want to continue the music and change the local frame back to Master. It take just a few seconds to do, I promise! If you are using different flows, the process involves keeping the new frame chain as a Local (starts with L), and selecting the frame’s flow and/or players to what you want and continuing this “downstream” for pages that follow.

musicmaven, to do what you’re suggesting you don’t need to faff with frames at all. Just go into Layout Options and tell it that you don’t want new flows to start on a new page…

I think what the OP actually wants is not just the next flow but the next flow’s front-matter, and that does demand fiddling with extra frames, preferably set up on custom master pages, as I demonstrated a good six hours ago :wink:

Yes, I forgot to mention that important step of “New Flows: Allow on existing page”, but my instructions are for making changes to the layout locally, not through Master Page Editing. But I disagree in that you do have to make some selections regarding the frame chain, whether or not this is done to the layout, or the master page.

After adding a 2nd music frame to the page, you will have to change the frame to match the previous Master Frame chain, otherwise the music will start at the beginning of the flow instead of continuing. Anytime a new frame is added, a new frame chain is added (MA becomes MB, etc), and if you want the music to flow from one frame to another you have to manually change it to match the previous frame.

[EDITED] Ah, I misunderstood your point of doing this through Master Pages versus layouts. I just wanted to clarify to others that no matter where you add frames - local layout or Master Page, some frame chain selections and/or flow/player selections will need to take place.

To do this ^^^ there is no need to draw a second music frame. See attached screenshot.

That’s exactly right, pianoleo. If you take the Layout Options route it dispenses with the front-end info that’s built into the First Master Page.

Derrek, I’m attaching an example layout. Just two flows but with First Master Page adapted so that the info can be taken from the Project Info details. You’ll see the gaping space at the end of the first flow. Ideally the second Flow would start immediately after that on the same page, complete with all the header information, as opposed to on a new page.

Pianoleo has the answer - a new Master Page that combines Default and First Pages.
Vocal Score Example.dorico.zip (390 KB)

Leo, thanks for this. I guess you would need to put extra space between the flows by adjusting the staff spacing because I believe David wants to have prefatory text before the 2nd flow when he says “…the end of a default page followed by a small space and then the start of a First page further down that same page.” Thankfully, Dorico allows text frames to overlap music frames. By the way, your example file in Post #2 is quite clever. It gives me some great ideas.

Derrek, your example is close, but I believe the OP wants the 2nd flow to start on the same page that the 1st flow ends. With your kind understanding, I took your example and “tweaked” it to show this possibility as well.
Vocal Score Example Tweaked.dorico.zip (273 KB)

musicmaven, “Vocal Score Example” was posted by David Tee, who is the OP, not Derrek.

I may be wrong, but I think you’re missing the point that I essentially solved David’s problem in my FIRST reply. To save you the hassle of downloading my project from that post, here’s a picture of the master page I was referring to.

Also, in your tweaked example you’ve forgotten to edit the frame chain so that the second frame on page 2 becomes part of the master chain. As such, if you start typing music into it you’ll find that it also appears on page 3. I’d tell you how to fix that but you’ve already tried to tell me how to do that very thing :wink:

Oops, sorry, I was reading too quickly! Yes I meant “David”. I did look at your template file in Post #2 right after you posted it and I think it is pretty clever! It has given me some great ideas. As with all this, “the devil is in the details”, and I am guilty of a few dropped details. I hope I am forgiven! :blush: I must say that it is really exciting to think that some of this may be automated at some point!

Well I certainly don’t mind, though I was a little anxious that perhaps you’d not quite understood how the master flow chain works (despite your explaining it to the rest of us fairly well). Unless you’re dealing with a flow that appears repeatedly, or some sort of editorial alternative or something, or a piano duet layout, (or some other obvious exception I haven’t thought of) I think the master flow chain is best kept intact.

Anyway, hopefully we can stop going round in circles now :slight_smile: