A shot across Steinberg's VST3 bow?

I would love to see CLAP support in Cubase. When I use my CLAP Instruments in supported DAWs (Bitwig), I can do so many awesome and usable things that I can NOT do to with VST3 versions of the same plugin! Using CLAP I get less CPU usage, since it handles multicores really well.
For me though, the polyphonic modulation, is the best part of CLAP.

Also VST3 doesn’t support MIDI as well as VST2 did, as we all know by know. Steinberg claimed that developers of plugins “abused” the VST2 specs to make plugins that can handle MIDI in ways they didn’t think of (apperently). Instead of Steinberg learning that dev’s and users WANTED these features, they ditched or dismantled these features in VST3. The dev’s of the VST platform says that the creators of plugins should not be able to make plugins that users wants… it says something about the climate these developers have been working under. The switch from VST2 to VST3 made some plugins more or less impossible or a nightmare to create.

Developers has already witnessed that it is very easy to implement CLAP, it takes very little time and effort.

Two DAWs have already implemented CLAP support. And just days after the official release of CLAP at least 5 other DAW developers are looking into CLAP: Avid (!), Cockos, Presonus (!), Image-Line (!), Plogue. I hope the list keeps growing and that Steinberg will be one of them.

I’m happy that plugin developers like Arturia and Fabfilter are also looking into CLAP.

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Don’t expect too much from “looking into it”. It doesn’t mean much, apart from that it may be looked into at some point. Developers are busy people, and, if there’s just a tiny fraction of the market which as to be served, things are easily dismissed.

I do understand your point about MIDI though. It’s a shame that Steinberg doesn’t acknowledge that there are loads of VST2 MIDI plugins out there. Using the MIDI FX in a DAW is no alternative, as those are proprietary effects, built into the DAW, which are in most if not all cases much more limited compared to third party MIDI effects. There’s also no standard for MIDI FX in DAW’s. Every DAW goes its own way in that regard.

It will be very telling therefore, if more major DAW developers jump on it. Ease of development and a dislike/distrust of VST could very well be very motivational factors for a few.

Others could just be driven by curiosity, and investigation leads to implementation.

Jump on it in Avid speak may be 5 yrs or more, just sayin

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We’ll see. As @steve wrote earlier: Let’s talk again in 10 years. :wink:

within one year, everyone will see what the deal is. If it cant jump off withing a year, it may never jump off. Give it one year

Or use it now, both viable options depending on your needs.

If anyone interested there’s a managed list of supported software: https://clapdb.tech/

How? I don’t even have a DAW which supports it.

Like probably 95% of the rest of people.

Frankly, I’m not even interested in it. Like Linux, it’s more of a religion for me, with so many missionaries preaching it everywhere.

As you said, Wait 10 years and see.

Yes, efficient, open source, MIT Licensed software is an awful concept. A closed eco system built around a subscription service is the way to go, ignore those damn hippies!

exactly, like a cult

That is your answer? Well, that’s piss poor, TBH. :wink: And totally proves my point on top of that.

Why not make all DAW’s open source as well then? It’s such a great concept after all. Last time I looked, the world was still run by money though, and competition. Volkswagen also doesn’t publish the blueprints of all their new models, by the way, surprise surprise. If the CLAP developers want to make their format open source, that’s their decision, and, it’s Steinberg’s decision if they don’t want to make their format open source. Or Avid’s. Or Apple’s. You name them.

Again, let’s talk again in 10 years, when CLAP has taken over the world, as it has set out to do. If you ask me, it will be supported by Bitwig only, for a long, long time. The audio software industry is no “push a button” ultra fast developing industry. It’s still on MIDI 1, from god knows when.

Oh, and, by the way, if Steinberg releases VST4 tomorrow, and Cubase gets some features which everybody wants in its next iteration, it could well be that some other formats just vanish, all of a sudden, if Cubase gets even more market share. Heresy. Yes, I know.

The only thing that is piss poor here is the steinberg fanboy behavior…

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We’re talking about a plugin standard/framework which is universal across platforms and software, you still sell commercial products on top of that, just as you would sell products that install within linux. You understand the concept, right?

I’m using it already, and whether it takes over the world or not isn’t the point, it’s an option. Music I love the most is nowhere near mainstream, and is no less valid than the likes of BTS.

Completely up to the individual what they want to do. Which is why it’s pretty ironic seeing beta testers and mods advising to wait 10 years, and others implying that open source through MIT licensing is some kind of “cult”. lol :slight_smile:

Ignoring the fact that already there’s 15 non-bitwig products supporting it?

Image-line already committed & Cockos developer Schwaa has github detailing implementation. I think you’re dismissing how easy (relatively) this is to integrate and the desire for a truly open standard.

Enjoy your 10 year wait, anyway. Great attitude. :+1:

what looks like a cult is not the development or the idea itself, is how people are going all over the place arguing and discussing, bad behaving in many other brands platforms. It´s a complete lack of refinement that shows a aggressive behavior toward others ideas, a true dogmatic cult characteristic. Too much emotionalism and not looking reality clearly.

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Interesting comment here about the open source aspect:

VST3 is open source too under the GPL license. If you want to use the open source license, your software has to be open source as well, so commercial developers don’t want to use it and have to sign an agreement with Steinberg for another license.

CLAP is licensed under the MIT license and can be used in closed source applications.

So while both CLAP and VST3 are open source, only CLAP can be used in commercial plugins under its open source license.

Right, I forgot the religious folks over at Cockos. :wink:

Now supports :clap:

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I think people confuse two very different things;

  • promoting and defending Steinberg
  • dispassionately having a different opinion about a likely outcome

In other words it’s not that “we” are “defending” Steinberg or anything, it’s just that “we” don’t think CLAP is certain to be this great big thing in the near future, essentially taking the place of VST3.

Arguing against someone else’s argument isn’t the same thing as being in favor of something else.

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Club Cubase - Steinberg implement CLAP standard question (3:25:58)

Interesting to hear Greg Ondo say that VST3 is incredibly mature but at the same time a lot of VST3 aspects go unutilised.

I don’t know what the deal is with third party devs not utilising available features of VST3, Note expression is a real annoyance to me. Very little support, and people hardly even know of it’s existence.

Other than MIDI CC, note expression is the only way you can modulate plugins within the actual key editor window so that it’s baked in with the performance. Personally I prefer that approach.

Seeing developers utilising such features in CLAP within it’s first week is quite encouraging, and maybe suggests they’re more in tune with the needs of plugin developers to serve their customers.

I think it really helps how clean the standard is, and launching on hosts that have better modulation options is a great platform to show what can be achieved.

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Exactly. Cubase isn’t even my main DAW.

Zealots will see any opinion differing from their own as heresy, and “fanboy-ism” though. Naturally.