A small collection of spacing-related issues

I’ve saved up images of a few spacing-related issues that I’ve come across over time. The point is not criticism of the software or anything like that, Dorico is great and if any of these can be useful to your team all the better. :slight_smile:

#1: Common behavior with grace notes. Slurs with grace notes most of the time need manual adjustments anyway.
(1) dorico bug1

#2-4: Accidental obstructed due to notes/rests in other voice. With some polyrhythmic combinations, the spacing system is not perfect.
(2) dorico bug2 (3) dorico bug4
(4) dorico bug3

#5: Tremolo stem doesn’t take into account the accidental’s placement.
(5) dorico bug5

#6: Spacing doesn’t give more room as to not obstruct the rhythm dot.
(6) dorico bug6

#7: Measure is in 6/8 time. Here the first G on the lower voice is on the first beat (with the tremolo chord), notation-wise it’s correct behavior I think. But no spacing is accounted for the following D and the slur which are squished together.
(7) dorico bug7

#8: Accidental bb obstructed by the preceding flag.
(8) dorico bug8

#9: Commonly happens when writing arpeggios crossing staves for harp parts etc, spacing doesn’t always account for the stems when crossing staves like this.
(9) dorico bug9

#10: Slightly different issue, but I could never solve why these grace notes would not want to move before the repeat barline when the option is set?
(10)

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It looks to me like your spacing widths are too narrow - there is too much material on each system. Try widening the spacing overall, or put in manual spacing changes as needed. Reducing the staff height might also work. It’s hard to diagnose the problem without seeing the actual Dorico file in question.

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Agreed. I never see these types of collisions and I do polyphonic keyboard writing regularly. This is only happening because your systems are too full and dorico can’t figure out how to accommodate everything. If you check note spacing mode in engrave mode, I suspect every system will be well over 100%. The solution is to have fewer measures per system which you can tweak individually where necessary (if it isn’t happening all the time) or you can set different casting off settings or tweak the default note spacing parameters.

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While I agree that these examples exhibit an extremely dense spacing, most probably caused by forcing more material onto a system than commendable, the majority of these screenshots show the results of a known issue: collision checks are performed only with the directly preceding spacing column, and not further. Daniel has mentioned that this is on the backlog.

All of the examples above would be solved by simply allowing more space. None of them require referencing something multiple beats back.

Both statements are correct. The first one in general, and the second one insofar as most of these examples have something happen in another voice, thus “slicing” the relevant spacing column in two – so for Dorico to be aware of the collision, it would not have to check back multiple beats… but at least one spacing column more.

To be more precise: this explanation applies to examples 2, 3, 4 and 6; with 8 being a variant is caused basically by the same issue, but without the “sliced” column.

For the grace notes before barline question - are there other grace notes at the same position not positioned before the barline? As it stands, you can’t have some grace notes before the barline and others after at the same position.

Thanks Lillie, I think that was the reason. There are rare cases where one might need grace notes both before and after a single barline on different instruments sometimes, it’s not certain to me why it’s not possible.

Thanks for all the answers, I’ll look into adjusting note spacing. 3 3/4 to 4 is what is being used in these screenshots (most of them are in galley mode). :slight_smile:

…ah. Well, that’s an entirely different conversation then. We’d need to see these examples in Page View.

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I do agree on the first point. Grace notes slurred to notes do need adjustment too often. I’ve been spoilt by Dorico :wink:

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Yeah, you can expect things to go wrong in Galley View! It doesn’t do spacing because it would have to calculate the entire score.

The real question is whether this happens in Page View.