And I listened again, and I was thinking how nice of you to humor my opinions coming from inexperience, considering how good this one is! Thanks again for posting.
Hi Leon,
I was not humouring you at all! 
What I know about engineering drums fits on the head of a pin.
But I honestly have experimented with the drums, and
so thanks for the vid. It was a nice reference track too.
I took some time yesterday to try a variety of approaches
but I simply cannot get even close to the tones you have
hinted at. I would have to replace Joe’s snare, which I don’t
think he would appreciate! I can squash it and mash it and
flatten it, but nothing sounds good (to my ears).
Tonally, it is as it is. No compression alters its fundamentals.
After an hour or so, I had to give up. 
But what it did result in was another slightly modified mix
and a fresh master, this time utilizing Dolby SR on the
tape. I had not used SR for over a year, but I recalibrated some
new cards and there is a certain “elasticity” to the overall
sound that results. It is hard to describe.
Anyway, thanks again for your interest and enthusiasm in
trying to prompt and push me to do better. It’s all good.
“A man’s got to know his limitations”. I found mine!
Neil,
thanks for your listen and comment. 
Kevin,
thanks for giving it a spin.
It is indeed great to have other musicians’
contributions. 
Still sounds great! I’m on the head of a pin with drum mixing knowledge as well! It’s a complicated subject. The only thing left to say is that in my limited experience with Spencer and his predecessors, the sound from the snare top is never any good on its own. The snare sound comes half from the direct mic and half from overheads or thereabouts (I’ve not tried a snare bottom mic). I torture the snare top mic to accentuate the snap of the hit (compressor 4:1, short attack - 25-30ms), I accentuate a low-mid frequency (120-150hz) to give it body, and I give it its own plate reverb with a long pre-delay. What I get sounds like crap, until it’s mixed with the overheads, which, obviously, you can’t process in this way! The overheads bring in the rest of the snare sound, in stereo. It’s a very current subject for me since we just did a live recording of five songs from our current set. I’m debating whether to post any of it!
Edit: I think I should add that what I’m doing is based on what Spencer is playing. He essentially controls his own mix in his playing, and manages to hit the rim a lot on the snare hits he wants to stand out. I still can’t believe I get to play with this guy!
I was told by a mixing engineer here in NYC that you should use an SM57 on the top of the snare and an SM58 on the bottom of it. Of course your mileage may vary and, if I ever mic’d drums, I’d probably use the Glyn Johns 4 mic technique for the whole kit. But since we’re talking about mic’ing the bottom of the snare, I thought I’d share.
Hey Jet, I’m so sorry I’m so late to hear this track. It is without doubt one of my favourites of yours (There are so many but this one stands out). I love that you were able to work with your son. How cool is that Frello? Everything works so well and the lyrics, well they are superb.
Wow. Wow. Wow.
all the best
Jonathan
Thanks for the listen and comments Jonathan.
I am glad you liked Taylor’s frello. He really lets rip on
it hey!
Glad you liked the lyrics too. Not sure where they came from
but am grateful they fell out on the page!
I have been mastering a new album.
11 tracks.
So, this is a truly mastered final print of this tune, done so against
the other 10 tracks.
Sent through Dolby SR to Otari and run through a
Kush Audio Electra outboard.
A bit of reduction at 3k and gentle boosts at 8k.
Some boost + cut on the EQP-WA at 100Hz.
These settings give all the tracks a nice patina that help
them sit well together.
Great all around. As usual. You bastard!
Nobody has commented about the lyrics…I can relate to them. You want to control your own destiny, but often one feels helpless, the victim of a destiny decided elsewhere, by who knows what. The words of Ken Watanabe and Tom Cruise, from the movie The Last Samurai, come to mind:
WATANABE: Can a man change his destiny?
CRUISE: I believe a man does what he can, until his destiny is revealed
So, there’s that 
About the music. Superb recording and mix. I concur with the comments about the snare; as the song moves along, I am wanting a bit more crack (but not a lot more). I realize these are recorded drums – and nice work Joe – so one way you might achieve this is with a Transient Designer – just automate a bit more attack, or level, whichever works better. I use the SPL one; IMO the Waves one is nowhere near as good.
LOVE the bass ostinato! Your son is quite talented. The frello solo really grabs the attention – impressed that it’s a unique, self-designed instrument. One thing about the ostinato: when the minor tonic chord changes to the iv chord, it’s a bit too murky. I know density is the point – it’s a major component of your style – but I feel just a bit more of a cue as to the chord change is warranted. This could be done any number of ways… you could even record a pad playing the minor third and subtly mix it in, I want to say.
Again, superb all around
Hey, Sir Doug! So good to hear from you.
You’ve been MIA for at least a year.
Thanks for the very kind review, glad you liked the track.
I have the UAD Transient Designer. Never thought of using it,
but am done with mixing this track now. Next time maybe!
I was stoked with Taylor’s part and am most chuffed that
everyone else is too.
Good to see you around.
Still love it. That is all.
I always love Jet’s lyrics. And that’s what it’s all about!
oh, and hello old friends. 
I’ve been gone for a while but have returned 
That is exactly right afa as the mic setup.
Joe, if you are back around…
Another very public thank you for your input into this track.
It is always great to work with you!
Jet
:2thumbsup:
Great album. As usual!
Hi guys,
Finally had a chance to read through the whole thread. I’ll start out by saying that I think that Jet’s mix is perfect for this song. Everyone has a different perception of what and how things should “feel.” When I listen to this album as a whole, it all fits together in a very beautiful way. And I think only Jet was able to accomplish that as the writer. I would have done something totally different, to this song as it’s own entity, and then it wouldn’t quite fit into the whole as well as it does.
Having said that, I had the opportunity to go back and listen to much of Jet’s music on Bandcamp, and I was presently surprised that I don’t hate my contributions when listening back with really fresh ears and lots of time gone by .
IF I was to mix a track with my drums in it, they would sound, and the track would sound very different. But not necessarily better. And I’ve always approached each project as it’s own thing…I don’t think I would go into working on a song with a preconceived notion that I would put the same mics all around the room, the same way, every time I had to mic stuff up. There are a lot of variables.
For a quick example, Jet’s track “Guns of Time” http://thepearldivers.bandcamp.com/track/guns-of-time
I’m sure it sounded very strange to Jet how the final mix came out when presented to him. Basically, the same kit comes in around the 3:30 mark. Mic’d similarly, with most of the same preamps, but hopefully mixed to fit this song in the context of the song.
Anyway, the person driving has control on this or any project, I did not want to influence the outcome in anyway besides presenting cleanly recorded “parts.”
And my favorite track on “Of Tides and Tales,” is “Shine Like the Sun.” And there are no drums.
How fabulous is it that the guy who played the drums is here to discuss!! Thanks, Joe! I just listened to Guns of Time (fabulous track!) and I would say that the way the drums are mixed is very different from “Victim of Stars”. Which is fine! Victim of Stars is more mono (overheads) and less compressed (snare and kick) than Guns of Time. In any case, I totally agree with you that it’s for Jet to drive the way he wants it to sound. Both of them sound fabulous in different ways, and the live drums are excellent!