Accent ending percussion rolls

What are you percussion guys’s opinions of dotted ties, as in e.g. Bartók?

I’m not familiar enough with Bartok’s use of dotted ties to have a reasonable opinion, Mark. I did go looking for score examples but didn’t find anything to comment on. I’m afraid I’ve never run into dotted ties in percussion parts, only in vocal music– most commonly to denote rhythmic differences in multiple verses, and sometimes used to indicate ‘no breath’ between syllables.

I, too, am unfamiliar with dotted ties. Do you mean dashed ties? If so, I have no clue as to what I would do. I would probably play it the same as a regular tie, unless there is some sort of description of what to do.

Robby

Dotted or dashed, whichever. Indeed, you’d play it the same as a regular tie, but supposedly it makes more sense visually since a roll is made up of many notes. On the other hand it’s more work for a copyist. If you haven’t even seen them, that’s info for me.

More discussion of notation for those interested …

I mentioned in another topic a couple months ago (regarding strings) that I had worked with a composer who insisted on dashed ties. She held up Bartók’s scores as the model, and regarded it as standard modern notational practice. Having much more experience reading older scores, I doubted its usefulness, especially for multiple bars.

Percussion rolls traditionally were notated like trills, at first with a new tr on each bar, then later with a wavy line continuing over barlines as appropriate, which clarifies the continuous nature. Where a rearticulation was desired, a new tr~ made it clear. Some time in the 19th century composers started using tremolo slashes (presumably borrowed from string writing) instead.

IMO ties are usually not needed for string section players, as the idea of making a slight break in a tremolo all together is impracticable. (But see the first page of Bartók Concerto for Orchestra for a famous example of how ties on tremolos can clarify the rhythm.)

Personal opinion: I don’t think a dotted tie is necessary here. Tremolo is a kind of sustained note. Tie-ing (sorry, what’s the spelling here?) implies the next note is not a new attack. It’s just a duration until the next bar.

The spelling is tying, just like the present participle of die is dying.

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Yes, or tieing … I like to distinguish tying (as in rope) from tieing (as in notes) …

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English spelling… I thought I paid some attention in middle school, but it’s still a nightmare. Sorry!

English spelling is a disaster. For example, how would you pronounce ghoti? Well, the gh in “laugh” is like f; the o in “women” is like a short i; and the ti in “action” is like sh. Therefore, ghoti is pronounced “fish.” :grinning:

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I see your “ghoti” and I raise you a “ghoughphtheightteeau tchoghs.”

It’s pronounced “potato chips.”

The “gh” in “hiccough” is pronounced like “p”
The “ough” in “doughnut” is pronounced like “o”
The “phth” in “phthisis” is pronounced like “t”
The “eigh” in “neighbour” is pronounced like “a”
The “tte” in “gazette” is pronounced like “t”
The “eau” in “plateau” is pronounced like “o”
The “tch” in “itch” is pronounced like “ch”
The “o” in women is pronounced like “i”
The “gh” in “hiccough” is still pronounced like “p”
And we’ll let the final “s” just be “s”

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The really funny thing about that though is that my brain actually does read it pretty close to “potato chips.” It very easily parses as something like “gotato chops.” Not bad! :laughing:

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I have read a book called “Spell it out: the singular story of English spelling” by David Crystal (Profile Books 2012).
It goes into the multitude of influences on English spelling over the centuries. Not a short read (about 300 pages), but very informative.