Accessing Keyswitches with CC

Hey :slight_smile:

I’m trying to access certain keyswitches of my instrument tracks with a MIDI CC but without loosing Expression map functionality.
The problem is, when I build this with the transformer it only works without using expression maps :frowning:
Does anybody have a clue?

Hi,

What is the reason to avoid Expression map, please (especially when you are using it anyway)?

I’d suggest using Midi Learn and assigning some notes to trigger the switches.

I’m not wanting to avoid them, like I stated above I wan’t to use a MIDI Controller in Addition to the Expression maps.

Here’s an example:
When playing Brass parts I often use short staccato notes in between sustain/legato parts, and I imagine just triggering staccato with CC64 to just press the sustain pedal while having two hands free to Play without having to reach for the corresponding keyswitch.

It works when I build a transformer preset that changes CC64 to the Key that triggers the keyswitch, but it stops working as soon as I assign an Expression map to the track.

I think the way this works (not at DAW to verify) is that when you create an Expression Map Slot that triggers a Key Switch, that Key Switch Note will initially not be seen by the VSTi when played, it becomes disabled in a way. For example if C-3 triggers staccato and you don’t have an Expression Map on the Track (or if you do it doesn’t have any Slots that trigger C-3) then playing C-3 will set it to staccato. But if you have an Expression Map that does trigger C-3 then playing C-3 on your keyboard will have no effect.

However for each Slot in your Map you can also assign an incoming note to trigger that Slot by setting a value in the Remote column for the Slot. So in my faux example if you set Remote to C-3 in the staccato Slot it should work like you want. In fact you could set it to any note you want and adjust the Input Transformer to convert to that note.

I think they set it up this way so if you use a remote key to trigger a slot it will get recorded as an event in the Map and not a regular MIDI Note. That way in the Score Editor for example it will show up as an articulation symbol and not a note 12 ledger lines below the staff. :confused:

Yep, unfortunately any transformations in the Input Transformer are not seen by VST Expression.
The only thing I can think of is to record-enable two MIDI tracks to the same instrument (with the Expression map on just one of them, and the Input Transformer on the other).

Ahh, that’s just dumb. They had to go out of their way to make it behave like that.

Thanks for the replies! I’ve set up my expression maps to keep the keys on my keyboard still working to trigger the KS. But yes the Transformer is ignored by the expression map, which is kinda anoying. Is this still the case with Cubase 9?

Yes.

Oh man. Thanks for checking!!
So I might end up switching on/Off Expression maps all the time to achieve this. Is There a shortcut/Macro available for enabling/disabling Expression maps for the selected tracks?
Sorry for asking this, I have to wait until monday to check it and I’m curious :smiley:

Vic’s suggestion to route 2 Tracks to the VSTi sounds like a viable workaround. It would let you leave the Expression Map on all the time. I think you’d need to add onto your Input Transformer so the two Tracks aren’t sending duplicate notes to be played.

I’ll try that! :slight_smile: I hope it also works with the transformer tracks linked and hidden because the amount of visible tracks would explode a bit

Ok I can’t figure out a practial solution with the two tracks approach.

  1. It seems that both tracks have to be visible and managed (Which would duplicate the tracks from 35 to 70)

  2. I can’t figure out to get rid of the duplicated notes

  3. Switching back to sustain articulation when CC 64 = 0 doesn’t work, even with deactivated Latch Mode. I tried “CC64 = 0” and “CC64 < X” but both just give me no key at all if I record, although the MIDI Monitor Shows the right note, no Key is recorded in the Instrument track…

Currently I’m Routing a second MIDI Track with the Input transformer that converts CC 64 with Value 127 to the corresponding KS Note into the Instrument track.

Can you post a screenshot of how you have set up the Input Transformer?
The solution might be to activate a second module of the Import Transformer for reactivation of sustain articulation (depending upon what the receiving instrument is expecting to see), and a third module (of the four available) to filter out the duplicate notes.
There might be a neater way, but I’d need to see your screenshot first :wink:.

Thanks Vic! :slight_smile:

Here’s a screenshot of the two transformer modules and the MIDI Monitor Output. The first entries of the Monitor are without transformer, the last ones with activated modules.

The Monitor says the right things but it doesn’t record anything on Sustain Release :frowning:, just on press.

http://imgur.com/a/cOFoa

It’s just a wild guess, but I think the problem (again, depending upon what the receiving instrument is expecting to see) is that, upon pedal release, it is converting it to note #F#2, but with a value#2 of zero. Try adding this line at the end of the lower section…
Value 2___Set to fixed value__127 (or, at least, higher than zero :wink: )

I’m following this tread to learn more about these more advanced uses of expression maps and the transformer functions. I’d like to see your example in English because, sadly, it’s all I understand.

If you’re improvising parts and want to be able to trigger the articulation changes as you create them, perhaps one of the foot controllers would help; if you’re playing a set part, then perhaps you’d need to record the controllers that aren’t part of or compatible with the Expression Map on a separate MIDI track?

Pardon my newbieness on this, but your question brings up some features of Cubase I need to learn more about.