I’m trying to find out if the following scenario is possible. I have a piece for cello and piano. I want to add an extra page to the cello part with illustrations of optional ornaments, and some instructional text. It seems that if I add that page at the end of the score then I get bar rests in the piano part at the end. I tried adding an extra cello part for the extra material, but it seems that I still end up with extra bars. Is what I am trying to do feasible, or should I perhaps start a new project just for the extra material?
Maybe you can work with new flows. If you deselect the piano from this flow, it won’t appear in the piano part.
If you create a new cello you may have more flexibility in engraving, because you won’t mess up the “real” part
For the additional page you can create a custom page in engrave mode and work with music/text frames
If it’s a complex page, maybe its easier to create graphic slices and create the page outside of Dorico.
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A new flow is a great idea.
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Thanks for the suggestion about a new flow. I hadn’t thought of that at all.
If you create a new flow for your notation information, I’d recommend then editing the Default page template for both the score and part page template sets, and unticking your notation flow from the MA frame chain.
That tells Dorico not to show it automatically in the default sequence, but you can still show the notation flow in specific music frames of your choosing. For example, on an extra page you insert at the start of the cello part layout (if you want to show this notation information at the beginning of more than one part, it would be worth creating a custom page template with the required setup of frames, which would allow you to put the same design at the beginning of multiple layouts).
I keep re-reading this, but I don’t understand it. Is there a tutorial that explains it, taking things step by step?
I’m attaching the score because I think it’s clearer what I want to do from this.
On page 4 (or optionally using page 3 and deleting page 4) I want to set up a page a little like the one described in this tutorial. dorico 4 make a worksheet - Google Search. There will only be one page like this in the score.
The score w
Gamelan Disco for Cello & Piano - in D copy.dorico (1.3 MB)
ill double as the piano part, and it will include this page. The cello part will also have this page.
I’ve created the examples to be inserted as separate flows (flows 2 - 10), and I can see how Anthony has set up his examples so that they can be brought into his first page.
My instinct is to just add the music frames to my page - I don’t really understand why I would need to create a new Default or Custom Template in order to do this. It seems unnecessary.
Gamelan Disco for Cello & Piano - in D EDITED.dorico (1.7 MB)
I just made some edits to your score. I hope it starts to make sense.
You CAN just Handcraft a Page like in the worksheet. BUT in your case there isn’t just one page but three. (Score, Cello, Piano).
I changed the assignments for the flows to frams in the templates for the score and parts to only show the “Mainflow”. I had to do this twice, score and parts, if you do it manually you have to do it for score, cello, piano.
i added a “instruction”- template. For example there are only 2 music frames assinged to the first two bars. I created it as a score template, then i imported it to the part templates.
If you do it this way. all three pages (score, Cello, Part) are exactly the same. The frames are exactly at the same place etc. If you need to edit something, you edit it once, import it to parts and your done.
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This page includes a YouTube how-to from Steinberg:
Hi Nukkul, first of all thank you for spending the time on this, I really appreciate it!
I’m studying it right now, and I have a couple of questions. (NB I understand your first paragraph)
- In the “Instructions” template, where do the second of the letters in the Frame Chain come from (i.e. J & K) in your example. I realize that it probably doesn’t matter, but I’m curious as to what the letters preceding J & K are assigned to?
- How do I get pages 1 - 4 into the 'cello part? (NB I hadn’t even considered the parts up to now, so I have only just noticed that they are missing!).
where do the second of the letters in the Frame Chain come from
Basically, if the music is to big to fill only this frame, it will continue in the next frame with the same letters.
The same way the music “flows” in your first flow from page to page.
- How do I get pages 1 - 4 into the 'cello part? (NB I hadn’t even considered the parts up to now, so I have only just noticed that they are missing!).
I guess, this is the reason why you should mostly work with the templates. You have to copy it now manually or create manually a new Template for those pages.
I think, it’s not possible to export a “handcrafted” layout as a template.
This would be a great feature, because in this case here, it’s way easier to size the music/text frames if you see the content, which you don’t see in template editing.
Yes, I somehow assumed that I would be able to do this. It would be an incredible advantage.
I’m coming to the conclusion that my best option for the text and title pages and this instructions page is to create a new project for them, “handcraft” them how I want, then I can just export them as pdfs and join them up to the pdfs of the score and cello part. Not ideal, but actually what I originally did in Sibelius when I first prepared this score. I guess that in this respect I assumed that Dorico would be cleverer than it actually is. Thank you for your help Nukkul, at least it’s clear to me now what’s going on.
This sort of thing is absolutely possible to do all within one Dorico project, and produce beautiful parts without having to do PDF combinations later. It just takes a little getting your head around the possibilities.
If you want to send me your project privately with any clarification I might need to understand what you want to achieve, I’d be happy to knock something together for you and explain what I’ve done, so you can have a look at it and hopefully pick up some ideas of how to work with the tools Dorico provides.
(Edit: I somehow missed you’ve posted to project earlier in the thread. When I’m back at a computer that runs Dorico, I’ll take a look.)
Hi Lillie,
I would very much appreciate that thank you. The score by itself (pp 5 onwards) is fine. The title page and the programme note (pp 1-2) are also fine. The instructions (pp3-4) are what I am wrestling with. I want to be able to incorporate the music examples which are in the 2nd and subsequent flows, onto one page with the instructions text either above or below the examples, on one page. The music examples each have a rubric which I have put in the flow headings (as in the Anthony Hughes worksheet example). When I print the parts, I don’t need a piano part, because the score doubles up as the piano part. But both the score and the piano part should have the title page (and somewhere it needs to say “Score” and “'cello part” appropriately), the programme note and the instruction sheet.
Best wishes, Jan
Here’s a very rough demo project (building on the version @Nukkul started for you) that hopefully shows some key concepts
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There are custom page templates for the Title page, information pages (different on the left/right pages, for pages 2-3) and an expanded notation information page with two columns for your instruction flows. I’ve literally just copied and pasted what you’d done as local page overrides in the score; the text is unformatted, because I’d like to go to bed soon. You can create paragraph styles to get the text on that page template styled to your heart’s content (but make sure you edit the page template to add paragraph styles/text styling, and then make sure that gets carried through to the parts page template set by either re-importing or doing the paragraph style changes again)
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The instruction page template has two columns, both in the same frame chain but one that’s different to the Default page template frame chain. Those flows start in the “1” frame and flow across into the “2” chain.
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I’ve applied those custom page templates to the relevant pages in the Cello part, you could also do the same in the score if you want those initial pages to get their formatting from the page templates rather than your local page overrides.
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Take a look at Layout Options for adjustments I’ve made to flow heading top/bottom margins, when the First page template is used, and page/music frame margins
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Ditto Notation Options > Barlines, where I’ve set your instruction flows to show no barline at the end, in case that’s preferable
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You had some gradual tempo changes as text items, which meant the “…” extended way too far in the cello part. Please don’t do this, it makes me sad – add a gradual tempo change, and customize the text it displays (e.g. to add “e cresc.”) using the Properties panel. Doing this makes me happy, and also gives fairies their wings (allegedly)
Have a rummage around, poke about at stuff, see how it works – hopefully that helps you see the principles of what you can do, although please don’t judge the formatting too harshly, it’s a rough demo and nothing more!
Gamelan Disco for Cello & Piano - in D EDITED_LH.dorico (1.2 MB)
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Hi Lillie,
Thank you for doing this. I appreciate that this is extra work for you. I’m gradually working my way through it.
One conclusion I have come to is that if I open a second project window, have one version on a screen to my right, and work on the screen in front of me on the Page Templates, then I can see the changes as I make them. There is one hitch however, and that is that a change to the text in a text frame on a Page Template doesn’t activate the Apply button, so it doesn’t get changed. I have to make a small adjustment to a frame (putting it back if necessary) for the Apply button to be active. Then everything is saved. This is the closest one can get to a WYSIWYG experience for this procedure. It certainly would be good to be able to mock up a Page Template in an actual page and then convert it to a Template as Nukkul suggested above.
It may take me a couple of days to absorb everything here, but it is certainly easier to understand things this way than watching the tutorials or reading the manual text.
Be sure to click outside the text frame to confirm the text change before looking for the Apply button to light.
Thanks Derrek.
Ok so I’m back working at it again. I can’t figure out how to see my extra flows in order to make alterations to them. Do they still exist? I assume that they must do because the rubrics are flowTitle tokens, but I can’t see them for some reason.
What project file are you in? Are the flows assigned to the layout in Setup mode? Are they selected in a music frame somewhere in the layout, and are there enough frames in that chain to display all the flows in the chain? etc