Adding Large GLOBAL LIBRARY CHART NUMBERS to Score and Parts?

I’m really getting to like the 3.5 system, but I do wish Dorico was a bit more intuitive when it comes to basic library stuff like putting large Chart Numbers on Scores and Parts automatically.

I’m futzing around trying to figure out adding master Chart Numbers with text blocks and inputting text, but I can’t find anything about how this standard library function operates. I’m not successful yet; I’m still printing out the parts and simply hand-writing the numbers on all the charts myself. This has to be easier. : /

The way I do this is:

  1. In Project Info (Cmd/Ctrl-I) I fill in the Work Number field for the flow (if there are multiple flows in the project) or the project (if it’s a single-flow project).
  2. On my First Master Pages (for both parts and scores) I have a text frame that contains either the {@flowWorkNumber@} token or the {@projectWorkNumber@} token.

It doesn’t have to be the “Work Number” token at all; you could use any of the fields in there that you’re not using for anything else. The point is that you use a single token as a placeholder on the page, and Dorico then automatically replaces it with whatever you’ve typed into Project Info for that particular token.

Assuming you’re correctly using Project Info for titles and composer details, I wouldn’t have thought this would feel terribly unintuitive.

For dummies like me, wouldn’t it be more intuitive to have the Global Work Number automatic on a score and each part after entering it via Command-I, instead of having to then also have to add the text box, add the text, and then…not see it anywhere except the Master Score page?

The default templates have a token for a title and for a composer. Those are probably considered the two things that everyone will need, and it’s pretty standard for the title to always go at the top and the composer name to go underneath and to the right of the title.

Some of us need lyricist names, sometimes.
Some of us need global work numbers, sometimes (though honestly questions about global work numbers are few and far between).
Some of us need subtitles sometimes.

For the situations where most of us don’t need most of these things, it’d just be unnecessary clutter.

Yes, it may be helpful for dummies like you for Global Work Numbers to be built into the stock templates, but all of our stock requirements are different.

(Accepting the “dummies like me” title officially)…In chart preparation for every Big Band I’ve ever played in all my long life, and for all Broadway scores (in New York and elsewhere), for TV shows like the Oscars, Emmy’s and Grammy’s pit orchestras, for all major Film studio work, and for many kinds of professional variety shows, Global Chart Numbers are considered essential, not “unnecessary clutter.” Having Global Chart Numbers keeps the work flow flowing during a session or professional show.

So, for all the “dummies” like me in the Broadway, Film industry or Big Band industries (etc.), I strongly encourage Dorico to implement an automatic Global Chart Number function.

I do sincerely appreciate the fast responses here. It’s heaven compared to other companies!!! Thank you!

I’m just a user, but I’m a user that has read approximately 95% of the threads on this board over the past 4+ years, and unofficially I can state that regardless of what the standard is in whatever areas you work in, either the vast majority of users here don’t share your needs, or they’ve figured out how to do this already.

The reality is that Dorico goes for power and efficiency, not “intuitive”. Once you’ve set your Master Pages up, you can have your global work numbers styled in one way in your parts and differently (like, larger, and in a different position) on your scores without ever having to think about it again. You do need to set up your master pages the way you want them, though.

Thank you again for your input and attention! We’ll see what happens.

My best - Suds

As Leo pointed out, this can be done pretty easily. Just create a Master Page like this. (The token is obviously unreadable at this point size but I was using projectworknumber.)

That will result in something like this:

Save that in the default file you start from and you’ll never have to do it again.

I’ve never used this, nor worked with a client who used this. Just another perspective.

Every single Broadway show uses it, every big band with a decent sized book, etc. There are even tunes where the number even ended up becoming the title itself, like “720 in the Books.”

Ok, I take that back. I purchase orchestrated charts from an online vendor, and they have multiple versions of some songs, so the arrangement number matters. :roll_eyes:

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Just for fun, here’s Ben Webster’s actual part from Duke Ellington’s “Ko-Ko” in Duke’s own handwriting circa 1940. (Check the backwards flags.) Often the number would be stamped or boxed in the upper right or left corner like this.

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That’s interesting - we play that chart, but we refer the ‘book’ as the ‘pad’ so I hadn’t made that connection.

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Wait, aren’t all hymnals arranged this way? You don’t find the hymn alphabetically or by page number, you find it based on hymn number, right? If a church has a hymn board to let the congregation know what will be sung, the numbers are always the hymn number, aren’t they?

It’s the same thing with a big band book. Way too many selections and too much effort (and room for error) to alphabetize, so the selections are numbered and the bandleader calls the tunes or gives out the set list by number. In musical theater often there will be multiple versions of the same tune in various forms so titles aren’t very helpful. The MD will just call the tunes by number at a rehearsal.

Sure, but for my part of the process, the number is not fixed, nor is it part of the project file. It’s decided in InDesign by however they happen to lay out.

I am puzzled how Dorico would know what number to print “automatically.” If the numbers are sequential, the {@flowNumber@} token would work. If not, then Leo’s solution to add the numbers manually to an Info field would be necessary.

With Dorico Pro’s ability to save and import Master Page sets, you or a friend (perhaps even someone here who understood your need) should be able to set up a custom Master Page set for you fairly quickly.

Thanks for the input Fred. I’m still getting caught on the number not appearing on the individual parts, even though I’ve set up the Default Part section on the Master Page editor.

Once again, this is such a common need in the business, you would think Dorico could just make it a standard feature option, without anyone having to futz with finding how to program the system this way.

If changes to master pages aren’t appearing in the layout, it could be because you’ve got local page overrides (denoted with red triangles in the panel on the right) which mean those pages won’t get updated when you change the master page.

Otherwise, which master page(s) are you editing, and where are those pages used? By default in part layouts, the First master page is used for the first page of music and the Default master page is used for all subsequent pages, including if a later flow starts with a flow heading at the top of a page. If you’ve edited the First master page but actually want the number to appear in the flow heading, you need to edit the flow heading itself.

Search this forum for “Flow 1” and count the number of people over the years who’ve asked how to get rid of it.

You’ve made abundantly clear that you want global work numbers to be a default thing. I would bet hard cash that if global work numbers were a default thing, there’d be a bunch of people asking how to turn them off.

I honestly don’t know how Dorico’s development team can win :wink:

We all tend to think of engraving software in terms of our particular area of work, but you have to remember that the world of music notation is quite broad. There’s historical and critical editions (itself a massive field), modern concert music of all types (another massive field), educational resources, singer-songwriters, sacred/liturgical music… and none of those would use the chart numbering you describe, generally speaking. So no, I wouldn’t say it’s a “common need” for a significant percentage of users (what percentage? I have no idea. I’m not sure anyone knows).

It’s impossible for one software to cater to the particular needs of one category of music. That Dorico works so broadly is testament to the thoughtfulness of the design team, and their efforts to communicate with experienced professionals in all these fields. It’s a tall order: the music notation industry is quite limited in market share (compared to DAWs, for example), but each part of the industry has a long list of features they demand from a notation program.

The vast majority of my work in Dorico is quite specific to one particular type of engraving. I don’t expect the program to be natively customized to all my particulars. But I’m very pleased with how easy it is to set things up the way I want them with no futher hindrance in workflow.

That’s precisely the case here. As others have demonstrated, it’s very, very easy to design a master page with exactly what you want, and use that page design for the rest of your professional career without needing to fiddle with it ever again! Anyways, most professionals in any field of music notation aren’t going to simply use the default master page design. One size can’t fit all. So you’re going to edit it to suit your exact needs and aesthetic sensibilities anyways.