Hi All,
Before I create a problem for myself further down the line - re the frame rate.
I’m about to start porting over all the audio & midi multitracks (from Studio One) for a massive project that will be a live musical show, with backing tracks and video. I want to put the entire project together in Nuendo as there will be different options for surround/stereo etc. The live show will be run from VST Live 2.
At the moment the venues will be small independent cinemas with digital projectors. I’ll also be performing the show in places where I’ll need to bring a short-throw video projector.
I haven’t started shooting the video yet, which I will be editing in Da Vinci. My first thought is to shoot at 24fps for the more “film-like” results.
Is there any reason to use one frame rate or another, given that there will be an ATMOS version eventually, and that I won’t always know what type of projection will be available (festivals etc).
As the project is over an hour without a break, with dialogue overlapping musical items and video, as well as sfx, I don’t want to find myself in a tight corner later. There’ll also be 2 language versions to start, maybe more later, so lengths of dialogue will differ, affecting cue points for music etc. I know I’m going to have to move blocks of tracks according to language, which may mean slightly different video cuts to fit. Nuendo looks perfect for this, but I just want to make sure that I set it all up properly so that I only have to worry about the creative process, and not deal with crazy brain-numbing things like pull-up/down frame rates etc. I’m a composer first, video editor because I have to do it, can’t afford to hire.
I should add that each song has a different tempo, I hope this will be manageable - I’d rather not use mixdowns of the songs (14) and chain them together, due to the different mix formats. Am I asking for trouble doing the entire production as one project within Nuendo?
Any advice would be really welcome.
Thank you.
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The framerate itself makes no difference in how you will work in the audio realm. The video will come into nuendo in whatever frame rate, you will work in sync, export it and it will remain in sync.
Tempo changes in songs or different lengths in cuts have nothing to do with frame rates, these are “parallel” things.
The choice of 24fps for artistic reasons is fine (and I bet the independant cinemas won’t complain either), and you won’t have to deal with it besides setting the session up in the right frame rate.
Now, if video is part of your deliverables, then you need to look into frame rate conversions, and choose what will be the lesser evil for you, since there will always be issues when converting.
But that is inherent to the process, and isn’t really related to Nuendo. In any DAW you’ll face the same issues.
Thank you @henrique_staino for these wise words! That’s good to know - I meant to mention time signatures, and a quick google tells me that might be an issue, I’ll have to do some tests as I’m often throwing in bars of 5 or 7 - and if I need to shift everything back in time, if these don’t move with it, I’ll have a really big problem.
Worst case scenario is I render the audio and don’t use any midi, the tempo can be a default constant throughout then, just treating Nuendo as a multi-track recorder. That way I can still do the different mixes, different languages etc. But I’d rather compose and arrange totally within the one project if possible.
I didn’t understand your last comment about deliverables - do you mean if I was to send to TV or suchlike? I’ve just come back from a meeting with the manager of a small cinema, and they want DCPs - no problem as Da Vinci can export that. Anyway if you could explain the deliverables that would help - but if it is for TV, should I be lucky enough for that to happen I’m sure I could pay someone to have that headache for me.
Yes I meant TV!
Yeah, if it is cinema only for the time being, don’t worry about frame rate!
Regarding time signature changes, I’m sorry I glossed over that.
Nuendo can deal with traditional time signature and tempo changes fairly easily. There are both time signatures and tempo tracks, and the tempo points can be selected and dragged along with video, audio or midi.
Tracks can be set as “musical” or “time based”, and only musical mode ones will follow tempo changes.
But I don’t think you can have multiple unrelated musical pieces in the same project and each of them have I mean, you can’t just go about changing or inserting time signatures at whatever point, it always needs to make musical sense in relation to what comes before them. I mean, if there is a 4/4 flag, next bar WILL HAVE four quarter notes, and a bar can only start where another bar ends, etc. So it is possible that you will find yourself having to do some workarounds to get bars starting exactly where you need them if you have an “unmusical” length between them.
It would be great if you could just have a linear time based timeline and do various independent inserts of musical material, putting any “first bars” as you want in the timeline and that’s it.
But if there is a way to do that, or a DAW that allows that, I’m not aware!
edit: Just to add that there is the workaround of playing around with tempo and time signatures just before where you need your bar to start until you find the combination that makes that bar land right where you need it. I think it is not a hard thing to do, to be honest. But it is not a surefire or totally straightforward thing!
Thanks, I wasn’t clear enough about the time sig changes. All changes will be baked into the arrangements - I’m not going to be going off on a free-tempo 13/8 solo! I did a quick check yesterday with insert silence, and that seems to be fine for moving tempo and time sigs properly, so the different language versions shouldn’t cause a problem with that, in terms of varying lengths of dialogue.
Most of the time the video will always be edited to the music, except where there’s dialogue, which will have the actor (me for the English version) on screen - during those clips there may have to be changes to the music accompaniment - live and backing. But I don’t anticipate any real challenges there, other than playing time! I’m looking forward to trying out the ADR in Nuendo.
My biggest problem I think will be finding a way to have in ear monitoring on a stage in front of the cinema screen. Given that the projector will load my DCP from a hard drive, I have yet to explore the sync possibilities from the pro room to the MacBook. There’s a lot of music without percussion, where I play classical style guitar and will need accurate click track or visual click. So that’s my next task, a visit to the projection room and a chat with someone knowledgeable about how to achieve this. Ideally there’ll be a BNC I can get clock from, or maybe a CAT6 connection - and then there’s working out the best way to integrate live performance sound with the cinema surround system.
I don’t of know anyone who’s done this kind of show before - lots of people play music to silent films, but this is rather different. I hope it’s going to be possible, technically. Fine when I’m bringing my own projector of course, but cinemas offer a beautiful ready-made surround environment with a great screen!