Besides the menu bar acting little funky (hopefully they are only the early stage glitches and fixed soon), the biggest problem I’m seeing is the lack of the keyboard shortcut.
Up until C7, the menu was accessible from the keyboard. Alt+F/X/A to render a 2mix, for instance.
This does not work any more on C8. At least on my machine, none of the menu shortcuts seem to work.
You can configure the Windows (I’m using 7) to show the accelerator display.
C8 still shows “File”, the underscore below the leter “F” suggests the menu can be accessed by hitting the Alt+F. But not. Nothing happens when I hit Alt+F while I’m working in the arrange view.
I enjoy making “bedroom recordings” with the gear listed in my signature. I haven’t found a need for a Mackie Control to manage it all, however. That seems more suitable for smaller, semi-pro setups.
I think C8 is a clear indication that there’s been a further emphasis on OS X development. That’s not all bad of course. Some of the things benefit both platforms – having to work around OS X’s sub par low latency performance must have been a big driver for ASIO Guard improvements, but it’s great to have for everyone.
An interesting detail is the track list font which was perfectly fine on Windows before, but looked hideous on OS X. That wasn’t Steinberg’s fault, it’s just that most fonts look hideous in low DPI on OS X (see Font Rendering: Respecting The Pixel Grid). The bigger font is one way to improve it on OS X now that retina is still not a thing in Cubase. On Windows it kind of feels like it just takes extra space unnecessarily.
The menu bar certainly feels strange, it does to Windows what running X apps like Gimp feels on OS X. Sure it works. And you’ll get used to it. But it feels really weird to break platform consistency like that!
I’m sure there must be some grumblings about this internally at Steinberg as well, what with the unfortunate side effect of this non-standard implementation being extra work for the developers, playing Whac-a-Mole with bizarre interface bugs like the zero padding and taskbar autohide issues that would never happen with standard windows. Don’t get me wrong, MDI definitely shouldn’t make a comeback. But vanilla window frames would be nice.
“A total clusterfuck”?! Exactly what does it stop you doing?
The menu works just the same as any other Windows program I own. None of them have got in the way at any time. Do you mean it should look like Windows Live Mail? (! Yech!)
“No competent Product Management professional would ever make such a decision…” A VERY large accusation for such a small point of criticism. So Cubase is built by monkeys…? For…? Huh!? There IS a trial version. Why did you not try it out?
If Windows own “Product Management Professionals” can make worse decisions (Vista, Win7 etc.) I think we can give Steinberg’s staff a tiny little bit of slack here. If the operating system’s SDK is out of whack then it will impede programmers down the line somewhere.
Name one other Windows program that combines the window title bar with the menu bar. I’m thinking that you don’t even understand what these terms mean. Because if you did, you would realize how uninformed your comments sound.
When a development team completely screws up the core window management system in a program (either out of inexperience or incompetence), that warrants healthy criticism. Of course, the criticism should mostly be directed at the head of the Product organization for hiring inexperienced people and for not catching the exceedingly bad decisions of the incompetent members of the team (and then for not getting rid of these people so as to prevent similar avoidable mistakes).
This thing is really awful and messing up my workflow. Sometimes I don’t know if project is closed or minimized. Sometimes, mistakingly thinking I accidentally closed the project, I open a new one only to be asked if I should “activate” the project. Meaning the other one was there all the time but hidden.
This is not improvement Steinberg. Not progress. The vst connect, bass amp, track versions are all good and useful things - not this piece of crap. Keeps pissing me off, cause I can’t work with my customary ease. Please get rid of it, or give us the option to disable it.
The windowing system for Cubase on Windows has changed.
Some people don’t like it, apparently some people do. Regardless of your opinion on the change, which you are welcome to voice, the assertion that the Dev team is inexperienced or incompetent is incorrect, and insulting to them.
As a long time Cubase user myself I have had occasion to be angry and/or dissappointed that my favorite or long-used feature was removed (or not added), but I try my best to maintain a respectful tone when speaking publicly about it. I think it’s a reasonable expectation.
So I’ll ask you one more time to tone down the insults, this time publicly.
Photoshop has gone in a similar vein with each image being a separate and individual window along with a main toolbar at the top. I think the reason for this change is to free the application’s sub-windows from having to appear within the main application window, and perhaps in the case of Cubase is also makes it easier to maximise the mixer or other windows without compromising any of the non-maximised windows that are also part of the Cb app??? Just thinking outloud really… I think we will get used to it, and hopefully SB will also iron out some wrinkles too.
Steve, while it is understandable that you would feel the need to defend the “honor” of your colleagues on the Dev team, these are the facts of the situation:
Steinberg HAD to improve the way windows are managed in Cubase in order to remain competitive and to address long standing customer complaints and usability issues
Steinberg elected to address this core usability issue in a way that violates every UI principle on the Windows platform and which introduces a host of possibly even more serious usability issues in the process
While there were likely a number of considerations that informed the decision to take this approach (including legacy code constraints, what was believed to be feasible to support moving forward, what could be done in a reasonable amount of time with the current Dev resources and other commitments,) the fact is that Steinberg made an objectively bad decision that will likely haunt them moving forward. Anyone who doesn’t understand or appreciate this has no experience with UI design or software development on the Windows platform
When a company makes an objectively wrong decision that no experienced or competent professional would EVER make, then it is fair game to question the experience and competence of that team and/or its leadership. As someone else pointed out, designing user interfaces is not rocket science in 2014. What works and what doesn’t is pretty well known at this point.
The fact is that Steinberg completely screwed this up. While there are a lot of other terrific improvements in Cubase 8, these are unfortunately overshadowed by Steinberg’s failure to adequately address the number one issue that the company needed to resolve with this release, i.e., the way that windows are managed on the Windows platform.
While we are on the subject of experience, it is worth pointing out a lesson that most companies have learned in the era of social media: You NEVER try to control the conversation, even on your own forum. While it may be painful to hear customers say that your company messed up, trying to control and direct the conversation just makes the company look even worse.
+1, but it’s not even that – name one other Windows program that has an unmovable, unsizeable title bar nailed to the top of the screen, that, when maximized, fills the screen with a grey background, and then offers no way back.
I very much like the windowing system/switching implemented in C8 under Win8.1. I use two monitors and on the left is the new “normal” pull down menus with the project menu full screen and behind it is mixer 2 full screen (audio tracks) and mixer 3 full screen (midi, instruments, effects). The right monitor is mixer 1 full screen with group and main out plus control room.
I also run Totalmix and Kemper Rig Manager along with C8.
Alt-Tab and I get to anywhere.
Also access to open VST items.
Thank you Steinberg.
So? What does it stop anyone doing? Please inform the “uninformed”. Cubase has been like that for a long time (Atari / Apple Macs). In essence Cubase establishes it’s own mini OS inside Windows, I presume so it can avoid conflicts with other Windows processes that might impede the specialised features within Cubase. Used to be the case that the midi implementation in Windows was very bad for Cubase and this may be part of their (old) way of dealing with it. No, I don’t know for sure, it’s just a guess.
Whatever. It WORKS. It’s a little different. I don’t see the big deal you’re making. If it’s a big issue for you and many others then surely the “Issues” section is where this maybe needs to move.
Just read your reply to Steve. While you explain eloquently on the programmers’ shortcomings maybe it would be helpful if others knew exactly how this would be a disaster for their future Projects.
Alt+F always brings up the search menu for me, not the file menu. I only use that on very long pages or on web pages if I need to find something specific, and very brief usually.
Does not happen in Cubase as that does not exist on the File menu as there are plenty of ways to find things within Cubase.
I don’t see that. I can max and min at will. So far. Will report here if it does happen any time.
Does this happen to you at any time or is it with a specific Project or something?
Okay, let’s first dispense with the silly straw man argument: I never said that the non-standard title/menu bar implementation in Cubase 8 would be a “disaster for future Projects.” I did say that it was a usability disaster.
If you know anything about User Experience and Interaction Design you will realize that this implementation violates the primary aim of consistency and predictability that good design strives for. When you implement a foundational feature in your program that literally works like NO other Windows program ever made, you force your users to adopt a new paradigm. There may be good reasons to do this as Microsoft would argue in the case of their “ribbon” interface in Microsoft Office and other programs. But the new design should offer some benefits that make using a new system worth the effort.
In the case of Cubase 8, there is absolutely no good reason why the feature was implemented as it was. ALL of the same benefits (and more) could have been delivered by simply including the main menu bar as an option on all primary, non-plugin/non-dialog windows (e.g., the Mix Console, Key Edit, etc.). By instead implementing this screwy global menu/title bar gray background thingy that can’t be minimized, Steinberg have unnecessarily confused their users and made the program harder to learn for newbies.
Can people figure out and work with Cubase 8? Of course. But they shouldn’t have to deal with something that offers no benefits over a more standard implementation. To see how windows should be managed (without any “docking,”) check out Evernote. The program features a standard menu bar implementation that works well (and as expected).
