Not to confuse the rest issue but force duration is apparently not required to add an explicit rest in insert mode.
The fact remains that the information that I as a potential new user needed to see was not in the manual where I first looked.
In a perfect world every user would read the whole manual and watch all the relevant videos. I think that is an unreasonable assumption.
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How hard would it be to simply add a little verbage that states that it’s not necessary to explicitly enter a rest and that they will show up automatically once you enter the first note? I’m sure new users would appreciate it. I certainly think it would have been prudent to include that in the documentation.
If I as a new user I had made that my first action, to try to enter an explicit rest, and discovered that it didn’t show up, I would definitely wonder why the instructions were not more explicit.
I believe it is a flaw to assume that users are always going to read all the documentation and view all the videos before trying out features
It’s really starting to get annoying that it can’t be acknowledged that maybe the documentation could be a little clearer. You all should be glad that I’m trying to give feedback to improve your product, but I’m not getting that feeling.
The information clearly is in the manual. Lillie’s already asked where you looked. What did you search for? What page were you on?
I typed input rests into the search box, and though this wasn’t the first search result it was the first result with an obviously pertinent title: Inputting rests
See the first sentence?
(And by the way, if we’re not acknowledging that you’re trying to help improve “our” product then it might be because it’s not “ours”. Lillie’s staff status at Steinberg is indicated by the small Steinberg logo within her avatar; the fact that the Steinberg logo isn’t present in anyone else’s avatar in this thread indicates that the rest of us are fellow users, not Steinberg staff.)
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Force Duration is not required in Insert mode to add Implicit rests, but it is required in order to add Explicit rests.
See the difference here - I’m adding quarter/crotchet implicit rests first, then quarter/crotchet explicit rests.
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Yes, I see the difference. Thanks
I tried to convey this exact sentiment in my earlier replies in this thread, but perhaps it got lost amongst other responses.
Apologies if I’ve missed it @rothvin, but I can’t see a response from you to the points/questions I’ve added to this thread, sharing pages that I think are relevant, both in the main manual and in our First Steps guide aimed at new users, and asking you whether these pages fulfil your requirements or whether the matter is still unclear to you; if so, I would appreciate hearing from you where you think additional information would be best suited (ie where would you expect to see it?).
To the best of my ability, I believe the information is there – but if users are telling me it’s not sufficient, or not in the right places, I take that feedback on board. I am responsible for Dorico’s documentation, and I am here personally in your thread responding to your comments: if you think changes would be beneficial, you just need to tell me what those changes should be, in your opinion, and where they should go, so that I can consider them.
For what it’s worth, I’ve tried to include succinct pointers about how Dorico automatically handles rests in a few relevant places: importantly, on the pages giving instructions for inputting rests but also in a note at the start of the instructions for inputting notes.
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In general that works excellently, but sometimes a client wants 2 quarter rests instead of a half rest, so it’s important that we be able to provide what our client wants. Situations where there’s a hold on a note in one staff, say the second 8th-note of beat 3, while another staff may not be playing in that half-measure and so the half-rest gets a fermata over a half-rest. In my experience as a conductor of amateur musical groups, it really helps in those situations that everybody see in their part that the fermata is actually over the 2nd half of beat 3, thus the need to explicitly enter rests.
I have been very frustrated with this, but now that I know I’m supposed to turn on “force duration” before trying to enter a rest things should be easier for me.
Having just read the section Lillie has linked to concerning inputting rests, it seems very clear to my mind. I just keep forgetting to turn on “force duration” but that’s my fault, not the fault of the documentation, which very clearly states that we need to turn on “force duration.”
May I suggest a different workflow? Don’t bother entering rests, and when you need a specific spelling, select those half rests, press o, 6, they will automatically turn into two quarter rests, and you can drag the fermata where you need (this works with any rhythmic value, I was just giving a practical example).
These are the only occasions where I need to enter explicit rests.
What you say makes great sense, Marc. I’m still trying to rid myself of habits picked up over many years of using Finale and then Sibelius.
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