All-too-frequent "Missing Ports" in Cubase Pro (MOTU 828x)

While it doesn’t happen every time I start Cubase Pro 15 (currently 15.0.6, but this is not a new issue in that update), I am all-too-frequently seeing Cubase default to the Steinberg built-in-ASIO Driver on startup, be it opening a project from the hub (as in the case of this screenshot) or just double-clicking on the project in Windows 11’s File Explorer:

Just to be clear, when this happens, my MOTU 828x (running over USB2) interface is powered up, and there was no Cubase crash in shutting it down after the previous session. Once I click OK here, I can go into Studio Setup to the Audio System tab, and select the MOTU Audio ASIO driver. After it asks me if I want to switch, and I click the Switch button, things work as expected.

I have yet to figure out a pattern as to when it does this and when it doesn’t. It isn’t a majority of times, but it is probably at least once or twice a week. And it is annoying.

I do not recall having seen this under Cubase 14 and earlier, except in very rare occasions, such as having accidentally shut my audio interface down prior to quitting Cubase. I’ve also been being fairly careful to wait a while after closing a project to close the hub, then to wait a while after the hub has been left to actually quit Cubase, and some time after that to turn off the MOTU interface, too.

Is anyone else seeing this? Any clues as to why it keeps happening and/or ways to minimize the occurrences?

Hi, @rickpaul

The very rare times I see the “Unmapped” messages is when I forget to power up my audio/MIDI interface before launching Cubase. From which, I suspect that either your MOTU 828x or the USB cable used with it (or both, in the worst case…) is flaky.

Honestly, I haven’t see any changes in the behavior of Cubase 15 related to your issue. :thinking:

I’m thinking that, if there were something flaky in the 828x or USB cable, I’d see issues during sessions, too, rather than just at startup. And this is decidedly not a case of not having powered up the gear as I always start both my Roland A-800PRO (USB MIDI keyboard and control surface) and MOTU 828x (audio interface and MIDI interface for another MIDI controller) and make sure both are fully up in Windows prior to starting Cubase. (The MOTU gets two Windows audio sounds on the way up, and also the display on the unit itself visibly gets to a certain status when it is fully up, so it is easy to tell when it is set to go.)

Also, from earlier experience when switching from the Thunderbolt II connection on my old Windows 10 system (no longer possible on my Windows 11 system) to USB2, I was having trouble with maintaining the USB connection with the USB cable that came with the 828x. I ended up switching to another USB cable after a while of experiencing the same thing on my new system, and that addressed that issue, no longer losing the connection during sessions.

I have a feeling there may be some pattern, possibly involving other applications, but, if so, I decidedly have not been able to pin it down to date. But it is also something I had not seen (other than in the obvious cases of forgetting to turn on my audio interface before starting Cubase) prior to Cubase 15.

Sounds driver specific as opposed to Cubase. I’ve never had this happen with my rme interface.

This is certainly conceivable. I’ve added the interface model to the post’s title, just in case. I never had the issue on my old system, but that was Windows 10, and it could be the device driver doesn’t work as well in Windows 11. And Cubase 15 came out soon enough after my system upgrade that it’s possible I just didn’t notice the problem with Cubase 14 on the new system. (I switched to 15 on the day it came out, even finishing a mix I’d been working on with Cubase 14.)

Of course, that doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen with your interface.

But it may be that there are some other circumstances involved in when this happens and when it doesn’t since it doesn’t happen every time for me. I haven’t yet tried to quantify what percentage of the time it does happen, though I’d guess it is somewhere between 5% and 10% of the time. Nor have I yet gotten to trying to log what, if anything, I might have been doing differently times when it does happen versus when it doesn’t. I believe that yesterday I was specifically watching a YouTube video in parallel with starting up Cubase, and perhaps there was a longer delay between when I powered up the interface and when I started Cubase than there might typically be. I’m going to need to be a bit more observant on this to see if I can figure out any patterns.

Hi,
I don’t quite understand the way you shut down projects, Cubase and the hub. Do you work with multiple projects at the same time?
I have never encountered any trouble here (two systems Win 10/11 and latest C15). What I do: I close the project and afterwards I close the hub - as simple as that.
I would take a closer look at the order you close things - maybe there’s an accidental mixup involved?

Good luck !

No, I’m not working on multiple projects (or at least only extremely rarely if maybe I need to reference something, like an effect chain, on one while working on another).

My order on closing is the same as yours. I’m just allowing some delay, specifically because I’ve noticed some others posting that either (or both) Cubase 15 is taking some time to close projects and/or shut its actual process down. The idea in my delaying is just to make sure there is plenty of time for the project to be totally closed on the way to the hub, and for the Cubase process(es) to be shut down between closing the hub and turning off my related hardware. In particular on the latter, I want to make sure Cubase has released the audio interface driver prior to turning off the hardware. (That is one scenario where I could at least envision the potential for Cubase’s not thinking it was using my MOTU interface at the time it was last shut down and thus defaulting to the generic ASIO driver. I started that delaying after having noticed this issue a few times and wondering if it might be connected to what some others had observed on the slow process shutdown.)

That’s exactly what I do, too. I give Cubase some time to properly save the changes and that’s about it.
I don’t think that this has something to do with your audiointerface and its drivers. However, for the sake of statistics and an attempt to narrow it down, I, too, have an RME like @mkok .

Do you route YouTube’s audio signal through your Motu? I guess it’s a separate output, yes? If not, maybe this might be a potential reason?

No, I’m just using my motherboard’s onboard sound for that. (I just had to check whether I’d even installed the Windows Wave drivers on this system as I know I’d uninstalled them on my older system at some point. I do have them on this one, but I don’t think I’ve ever used them – only the ASIO drivers.)

My one thought in my mention of doing something in YouTube yesterday was more about the delay between powering up the interface and starting Cubase in cases where I may be “distracted” by something else during the time I’m waiting for the interface to fully be ready. In particular, I don’t think I’ve changed my default power plan on Windows 11 to prevent USB devices from being suspended, and, perhaps if the timeout isn’t super long, it might occasionally time out the audio interface, and Cubase might not initially see it when it makes that first check (i.e. maybe it takes longer to wake up to signal its availability?), thus making the substitute, but, in the meantime, it becomes available in time for me to notice and switch ASIO drivers. I do know one difference between Cubase 14 and 15 is that the audio interface can be selected directly in the hub, without having to go into the normal Studio Settings interface. So perhaps there is an earlier check of the ASIO driver list than had been done in Cubase 14?

One possibly related thing is that I have occasionally noticed that, on initially coming up into Cubase, I’ll get seemingly random bursts of a static-type (crackly?) noise – not just one-off, but seemingly also not a specific period between bursts. In fact, coming into Cubase just now (and Cubase did remember the MOTU device this time), I’m hearing it. Playback doesn’t have to be engaged to hear it (e.g. today I heard 2 such bursts just while I was starting to respond to this message), though it mostly happens during playback. When it does happen, going into the MOTU control panel and changing the sample buffer size gets rid of it. Thus, it feels like there is some weird communication happening between Cubase and the driver that is reset by the sample buffer size change. This is also something I never heard in Cubase 14.

Out of curiosity, are the RME devices you guys have using USB, or are the PCIe or some other connection type?

I use my RME via USB 2.0 - I have never had an issue, not once. Three letters - RME… :wink:

Haha, someone is clearly biased. Anyhow, this is not about RME.

I already know the answer but I am asking anyways, just in case: Have you made sure that you got the latest firmware installed on your Motu and that the latest ASIO drivers are also installed?
I know that you are an experienced user, so please don’t take this question the wrong way :wink:

Mine is a Babyface pro fs and is usb2.

By the way I disable the onboard audio in bios as well as wi fi as I use Ethernet. I have nothing running that doesn’t need to be. I use a laptop for anything that isn’t part of the studio. I keep my studio machine very clean and dedicated to audio work.

Yes to both. I was actually somewhat surprised the firmware I’d installed a few years back was still the latest (hasn’t been updated since 2017), and I downloaded drivers fresh when I built the new system (they were from 2022 anyway, so I’d probably had the latest on my Win10 system anyway).

LOL. Not in my budget for the foreseeable future. (I’ve had the 828x for about 11 or 12 years now, though I ran it on Thunderbolt 2 on my old system.)

For better or worse, multiple systems are not practical for me. My computer has pretty much “everything” on it – e.g. Microsoft Office, Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom, DaVinci Resolve, other Steinberg apps (Dorico, WaveLab, SpectraLayers), and lots more. It’s partly a financial consideration, but also due to space and workflow considerations since mine is a small home bedroom studio, not something that needs to cater to anyone other than my own music making (and other activities).

I like using the onboard audio for everything other than DAW usage (and sometimes even for certain activities in WaveLab, though never for Cubase). Partly, it helps avoid conflicts, but there are other convenience factors, not to mention providing a separate set of speakers for listening to rendered mixes.

You can definetly route everything through your Moto 828x - no need for onboard audio. But you do you - I am just saying :wink:

Probably, though the connections wouldn’t be convenient – my motherboard-based speakers are an old Logitech 5.1 surround system with three 1/8” stereo jacks (LR, LR Back, and Center/Sub). I could put some adapters together, I suppose, but, more importantly, it would need meaning to turn the MOTU interface on for sound even when I’m not doing DAW-type work (probably on the order of half the time when I don’t have a deadline looming). While I don’t use the back or mid speakers much, I do use the front speakers with the sub pretty much all the time, and it’s a quick way to get an alternate perspective on an exported mix without needing to write it to a USB stick and take to another room or my car. (I also use the Waves Nx stuff with headphones to get additional perspectives prior to exporting.)

My main reason for going with the 828x was a combination of the Thunderbolt 2 connectivity, which my older system supported (though I learned later that there really wasn’t a performance advantage over USB2 the way MOTU implemented it), and needing ADAT connectivity in addition to connectivity for my studio monitors, two pairs of headphones, and a few analog inputs. I’m mostly just using one mic input on the last count, though I’ve occasionally hooked up a cassette deck for digitizing old demos and other cassette-based “masters”.

Ah, I see. It was more about the possibility to rule out competing sound devices in order to find the culprit. As I said - you do you :slight_smile:

Translation checks - so many ways to do it. All depending on what you want to achieve and what kind of sound ideal you are looking for. LOL, the good old car check… I keep it as a nice relict of the past :automobile:
At the end of the day, everyone needs to find out on their own what works best. I am digressing…

I don’t need the car checks as much now as I did prior to starting with the Waves Nx stuff, but I still find it useful, especially in checking on potential low-end resonances. And, of course, while driving, you can’t focus as much on the details, which leads to another sort of perspective compared to critical listening in the home studio, be it on monitors, computer speakers, headphones or ….

I’m mainly looking to ferret out anything that sticks out (in a bad way) that I might not have heard otherwise. My recordings (7 albums, 3 EPs, and upwards of 70 singles, many, but not all, of which overlap with the albums and EPs, albeit with album versions often being better remixes) mostly go on the typical streaming services (e.g. Spotify, Apple, Amazon, YouTube, Pandora, …), though, at least for the albums and EPs, I also make limited CD runs, mostly to use for archives and promotional uses. I’m also pitching for sync opportunities when I find something that matches what I do (10 songs signed to a sync library this year).

Since I’m doing everything – true DIY stuff – the translation checks tend to be in my “mastering engineer” role. But I also do that frequently along the way, from initial work mixes while still working on arrangements to the actual final masters.

And, yeah, this is digressing, but I don’t mind. By posting, I was mainly hoping I might find someone else who was having similar experiences in order to compare notes and possibly lead to some homing in on root causes.

I don’t see the “competing sound devices” as being applicable since one is ASIO and the other is whatever Windows protocol is being used for everything else (albeit ASIO on a different device in WaveLab, Dorico, and perhaps SpectraLayers – I don’t use those all that frequently, though). Also, I never had this issue on my older system, where my usage profile was very similar, except for having run the 828x over Thunderbolt instead of USB2 (and, of course, Win 10 versus Win 11).

I can’t be positive that this is unique to Cubase 15, versus something different on my Win 11 system (or with Win 11 itself), but I also don’t see myself spending any time trying to see if it happens on Cubase 14 on this system, either, especially since it isn’t something that happens on every Cubase startup, so not seeing it on Cubase 14 wouldn’t definitively indicate that it couldn’t happen on Cubase 14. What I will attempt is trying to be more observant of what might be different when it does happen compared to when it doesn’t.

RME Fireface UCX connected to my DAW via USB2.

I had some issues with it, during a period, related to the audio engine still sleeping (no audio activity and no sound) at first Cubase launch, sometimes : when it occured, I had to use the Reset button in the Audio System panel to wake it up, often several times. It has been more or less solved one year ago (knock on wood…), probably thank to a Windows update.

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So, I had the issue happen again tonight, and I think the specific scenario might provide a clue. Here’s the basic sequence of events:

I was working on editing fades in a bunch of background vocals, then bouncing them together, doing various direct audio processing with plugins, initially Waves Vx DeReverb then Vx, but then iZotope RX 11 Connect. Each time after I did the direct processing I made that processing permanent, duplicating tracks and disabling them along the way (and putting them into an “Old BGVs” folder to hide the clutter). After this, I used Waves Sync Vx (an ARA extension) for tightening the BGVs versus the lead, then I started tuning a few sections of the song with Melodyne (also as an ARA extension), making the extensions permanent as I did each song section.

I then closed down Cubase and took a few hours break for dinner and to practice for an upcoming live gig. Here the possible key though. RX Connect brings up an instance of the RX application. The sound for that goes to my computer’s audio interface, not the MOTU while I’m actually doing the editing. Of course, once it is applied it will be playing through the MOTU interface in Cubase, but the RX editor does not close down in the background. When I took my break, I totally forgot that RX was hanging around, as it wasn’t in the foreground on my screen (not sure if it was behind some other window, like a browser or minimized or …). I turned my MIDI controller and MOTU interface off during the break (very typical for me – saving on power at expensive energy use times).

When I came back, I powered the controller and audio interface up again, waited a little while after both were fully up, then double-clicked on the project’s CPR file in File Explorer. Cubase had the “missing ports” dialog.

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this situation on at least one other occasion when using RX Connect. I can’t see any good reason for an issue (and it’s not something I saw on my old system with Cubase 14). It’s not like RX was using the MOTU interface, nor would it try to grab it when it becomes available.

But I am thinking there may be some relationship to other audio applications’ being used, and perhaps being open, when Cubase starts. The other day when I had it, I’d been watching a YouTube video in Edge, so it was the browser playing audio. I’m pretty sure that does not happen every time I’m playing audio in the browser when Cubase starts. I wonder, though, if there may be some applications, or some specific types of uses of other audio interfaces (i.e. in my case the computer’s built-in interface) that somehow make a difference here.

Just checking now my RX audio settings, it looks like I’m using the MME driver:

It’s late tonight, but this might be something I can experiment with next time I get a chance, including checking to see both if I can find a repeatable recipe and, if so, if Cubase 14 has the same issue on this system (e.g. if maybe there is something different in the basic Windows driver setup here than I had on Windows 10 – it’s a different motherboard, and a newer RealTek audio interface than the old computer had).

My thinking on a potential recipe is twofold:

First, just try having RX 11’s audio editor up (maybe not even doing anything, or maybe just loading an audio file and playing it briefly) then powering up my controller and audio interface, waiting to see that they are fully live, and starting Cubase.

Second, if that isn’t sufficient, load a simple test project with some audio inside Cubase, use RX Connect via direct offline processing to make some minor tweak, send it back to Cubase, save the file, close the project, exit Cubase, and start Cubase again (without closing RX). A variation on this (e.g. if that doesn’t create the problem), would be to power the audio interface down after shutting down Cubase and power it back up prior to restarting Cubase.

I’ve had this issue before using an RME Babyface Pro FS connected via USB type A. It seems to happen when I play with my monitor (display) inputs. One of my displays seems to have a mic jack or its speakers being picked up as a sound-card/audio-device. So when Cubase launches, it sees another (“new”) device and asks which I want to use (then lists them all, including built in audio). I use my Babyface Pro as an aggregate pair with a Digiface, so all 3 also show up as options.

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