Alternative to InDesign?

Yes. This is my method. In fact, I export to AP to do things Dorico cant (like align verse numbers between staves).

Users here have reported that even SVGs don’t import correctly. EPS files do, but there’s no direct way to export EPS files from Dorico.

I am transitioning from InDesign to Affinity Publisher. I agree that it has some shortcomings as of right now. But if I were you, before you invest (mostly time, gobs of it) in InDesign, I’d test-run APub and see if it handles PDFs (or the SVG method) the way you want (not every use-case is a non-starter). Also, if after having done that, you don’t think it’ll work, post your findings on the Serif (APub’s company) forums and be surprised at how quickly the devs respond. Obviously, if it’s a major issue, it’ll take time, but the software is on a fast track, so it’s worth a shot.

Just my 2 cents, Dan.

I found (and find) InDesign very hard to handle, and I’m always doing websearches for “how to do ____ in InDesign”, since it just seems so hard to get so much of it to work. If it were something I used every day, it’d be different, but…

Also, if you use APub, your clients will be able to also, and it’ll be cheaper for all involved.

EDIT: I’d never heard of VIVADesigner. Looks promising. Maybe better than Affinity. May be worth your time to look into.

Here’s a screenshot of a PDF from Dorico, straight into Affinity.

Screenshot 5.png
And an EPS made from the PDF, also imported into Affinity.


Weirdly, the effects vary from one PDF to another: I have some that are almost perfect; others with just a few noteheads in the wrong positions; and some like this one. Also, if you make a PDF of the EPS, you get the same crappiness again!

It’s been discussed at length on the Affinity forums: at least since Publisher was launched. (If you use Photo to convert a PDF into a bitmap, you get the same problems.) Just the other day someone reported trying to import from Sibelius with similar results. The company line is that importing PDFs with embedded fonts is “not supported”, and that it’s a major problem that they’re trying to solve.

Thanks Ben and Eric. Until that sort of import is foolproof, I’m not going to try it!

I use InDesign CS6 for my hymnal work as well. CS6 still works pretty well, and it really helped to be able to write scripts to do things like renumbering and neume positioning for the plainsong portions.

If you can find a copy of CS6, it might be good enough, and can save you subscription fees. The only issue I’ve had with it is that it is not high-DPI aware, so the UI elements are teeny-tiny (because I really want it to render at full resolution).

I used InDesign CS6 until Adobe started to force their subscription scheme on me. Luckily I discovered Affinity Publisher. After using the beta version for a while I made the switch when the final version were released. I haven’t looked back since. For an unbeatable price you get most of the functions from ID. The only thing I am missing really is global layers but it’s not crucial for my work at this moment. On the other hand you get a program that is faster, has far better layers function and total integration with their two other programs: Photo and Designer. As for problems with importing PDF-files made with Dorico, I have never encountered the problems shown above. I am now finally free of the Adobe Grasp. Affinity Publisher has replaced InDesign, Affinity Photo has replaced PhotoShop, Affinity Designer has replaced Illustrator and finally Exposure X4 has replaced Lightroom. Good riddance! I suggest to everyone who are considering switching, to download the full 30 day demos of the Affinity programs to check them out and see if they can do the job. And no, I am not sponored by Serif :slight_smile:. Even if you buy all three programs the total price is far less than a year of subscription of InDesign.

I’m surprised you haven’t experienced the PDF issues… Mine haven’t been as bad as the latest example, however I’ve definitely had issues with hyphens being out of place, and font styles/weights being incorrect.

I just imported several Finale PDFs into Affinity Publisher and don’t notice issues; however there was a font substitution issue with an InDesign PDF placed into AP.

Interesting. There’s been much scuttle on the forum about various exporting deficiencies of Dorico. I wonder if there’s something in how dorico (in particular) encodes the PDFs… that said, I was under the impression that this was a broader issue that people have complained about on the AP forum.

It does look darker than Finale. I mean the text fonts too, apples to apples. The weight is heavier. I have no idea if that’s related.

The corruption of the PDF can vary from PDF to PDF: I have many from Dorico that are almost perfect, but still have the odd thing missing. Here’s a Finale PDF, taken at random. Some, but not all, hyphens were missing. And of course fi ligatures are broken.**

It’s true that if I use MacOS’s PDF instead of Dorico’s, then the output in my terrible example is greatly improved. But it’s still not perfect. Even outputting PostScript and distilling with Acrobat produces not-quite-perfect results in Affinity. The point is that is can’t be relied on. If I have to check through the whole document for strange effects, that’s a lot of time wasted.

** Create a new Affinity Publisher document, type the word “office” in a standard serif font, like Times New Roman. Export a PDF and import it. The fi ligature will be broken.
Screenshot.png

I believe you, benwiggy, which is why I haven’t used AP so far after years of eager anticipation.

Affinity 1.9 dropped and they finally have PDF pass through!

Just reading the post and haven’t had a chance to test it out yet, but I’m hopeful.

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I looked at Affinity when I got locked out of my CS6 suite. (I love InDesign, but ain’t going to pay a monthly ransom.) Affinity seemed way short of InDesign in functionality. That said, Dan’s requirements are pretty modest, I’d have thought. I’ll take a look at VivaDesigner some time, which I wasn’t previously aware of, but I’m a bit concerned that their product overview literature is 4 years or so out of date. Dan, have you looked at Microsoft Publisher? You might already have it if you have one of their Office suites, depending on the version.

Hope it meets everyone’s expectations.

Their software is 50% off at the moment - seriously good value. I use Designer and Publisher every day. Adobe is now a thing of the past …

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I really appreciate the discussion and the input form everyone.

Actually over the past 6 months, some of my newer projects have been larger and more complex, and I’ve taken time to systematically learn InDesign (including some one-on-one lessons).

All that to say, InDesign has increased in value to me, and I find myself more reliant on its power features. I’m glad to hear Affinity is moving forward, but I’ve decided to stay with ID.

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The company that makes VivaDesigner is a heavyweight German prepress software outfit, and the software is certainly being updated regularly, if not the marketing stuff on their website. Indeed, marketing themselves seems to be their weakness. But the product produces good print output, and is solid and pretty easy to use.

As I’m now fully updated to Big Sur, I use VD (so to speak) to open my legacy InDesign files, which it does very well.

Affinity’: there’s some very clever stuff, but it can feel like a toy sometimes. And if you want to edit a PDF in Designer, the issues with fonts are still there.

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great, and I just bought it some weeks ago, because I didn’t expect a discount to appear so soon again and I needed it. Well, it ain’t so much after all.

Does anyone have experiences if 1.9 will make the outlining script unnecessary already?

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If you want to position music from Dorico on a page in Publisher, then yes, it will work fine without needing to outline.

If you want to edit the notation, or add graphical components in Designer, then you still need to outline first.

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