Ample sound vst dont't work with Dorico?

Hello,

I have a problem with techniques that work with key switches.

I use a guitar vst from ample sound. For example hammer on and pull of and legato slide don’t work. I can see that the technique is switched on the vst but it doesn’t work.

When I export my project without changing anything in reaper, everything works normally.

I don’t understand what doesn’t work.

I would like to leave my project “test” .dorico in case someone with a guitar vst from ample sound comes by but I don’t know how to do it…

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Dear Ibadez38,
Have you created an expression map for this library? Or downloaded one in the pinned thread (I don’t think there is, but I might as well be mistaken)?
If you haven’t, no wonder those changes do not take place. The expression map tells the playback engine which playback technique it should use whenever there’s a playing technique used on the score. That playback technique can trigger key switches, call the correct samples… This will require some work from you, I’m afraid. Since all libraries are different, it is not reasonably easy to provide expression maps for every library. Ideally, the library maker should do it (as does Arne Wallander with NotePerformer — this might also explain how successful this library is!).
Hope it helps!

Thank you for your response,

Indeed I have created all the map expressions of almost all the techniques. Only the legato slide and hammer on pull off techniques don’t seem to work, they work one time out of 20.

When I go to Reaper to try everything works properly.

The only way I see and I’m surely wrong (I hope) is that dorico has trouble managing these techniques because the notes overlap . This is just a guess.

I would like to specify that on the VST interface the technique is well engaged but it is not played.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


Merci pour votre réponse,

En effet j’ai crée toutes les expressions map de presque toutes les techniques. Seule les techniques legato slide et hammer on pull off ne semble pas fonctionner, elles fonctionnent une fois sur 20, par exemple quand je change de nuance (ff, pp…) et tout de suite aprés sa ne remarche pas.

Quand je vais sur Reaper sans changer aucun key switch tout marche convenablement.

Le seul chemin que je vois et je me trompe sûrement (je l’espère), c’est que dorico a du mal à gérer ces techniques car les notes se chevauchent… Ce n’est qu’une supposition.

Je tiens à préciser que sur l’interface du VST la technique est bien enclenchée mais elle ne se joue pas.

I tried to play live with dorico and even if the techniques are activated on the VST (legato slide, hammer on, pull off) still don’t work.

Hopefully a user using vst from ample sound can see this topic and give me his expertise.

I won’t be able to buy Dorico until I fix this problem :frowning:

I allow myself to raise the topic in case someone is able to solve the problem.

Well, it doesn’t look like there are any Doricians using Ample sound vstis. I checked different YouTube videos on those instruments and they are indeed quite interesting! I am afraid the majority here does not use electric guitars or basses, at least not for good mockups. I don’t have time for this myself — I’d rather record a real guitar as this is one of my instruments — but they sound pretty good! And there are lots of articulations available, so I understand the OP’s will to use it quite seamlessly

It’s been a week that I’ve been working on the problem, I’ve tried to find as much information as possible, I’ve also written on the forum a lot of sound but no answer.

I despair, I’m afraid I won’t find a solution before the end of my trial period, I find dorico excellent but this problem will prevent me from buying it.

Anyway, thank you for your interest in my problem, I feel less lonely x)

Ample Guitar is excellent, but I haven’t tried it with Dorico. I’m almost certain I remember Paul saying Dorico couldn’t trigger these sorts of VSTs (strumming), but please don’t quote me on that. I’d hate to lead you astray in that regard…

Thank you for your response,

My trial version is nearing the end and I still haven’t had an answer from a developer.

I would like to know if this problem is known, if it will be solved or not to know if I buy or not Dorico.

Ibadez38, we unfortunately cannot test every third-party virtual instrument with Dorico. Dorico has quite powerful and flexible controls for MIDI controllers, keyswitch notes, and so on. The main limitation that exists when handling third-party virtual instruments is that Dorico does not currently output tempo information, so if the plug-in relies on this information, e.g. to determine the rhythm of a strumming pattern, that will not work in Dorico 3.5 at the time of writing. Anything that relies upon keyswitches and MIDI controllers should be reasonably easy to get going. If you want more specific help, please ask a more specific question.

Thank you for your response,

Sorry for the problem which is not precise, I use a translator and I will try to be as precise as possible.

I use a VSTi guitar from “Ample sound”.
When I program all the techniques of the instrument (which are triggered by KeySwitch) into the expression map all the techniques are triggered when I start playback. Indeed, I can see on the “piano” of the vst that the keys are activated and that the techniques are activated on the virtual instrument.
However, the techniques hammer on / pull of and legato slide, even if the technique is activated on the “piano” of the VSTi as well as on the virtual instrument, the hammer on / pull of and/or legato slide are not played. The technique is activated but the sound of the technique is not played.

The same applies to guitar chords that are triggered by a keyswitch. When I activate a Key Switch the guitar plays 3 notes of the chord when it should play 6 notes.



When I export the midi project as is in a DAW everything works normally.

I would like to point out that I have disabled all synchronization between the VSTi and Dorico.

I have tried this on several different guitars and different versions of “Ample sound” and the problem is always the same.

I don’t know if that’s where the problem comes from, but when you say: “…Dorico does not currently output tempo information, so if the plug-in relies on this information, e.g. to determine the rhythm of a strumming pattern, that will not work in Dorico 3.5”, does that mean that this problem is likely to be solved in future versions?

I hope I have been as accurate as possible.

Thank you in advance for your help.

What is different about the hammer-on/pull-off and legato slide techniques compared to the other techniques? What additional data is the plug-in expecting to receive in order to trigger those sounds? It is also necessary, for example, to ensure that the notes also overlap in addition to specifying the keyswitch? What does the documentation provided with the Ample Sound guitar say specifically about these techniques? Is the fact that you are presumably also using a notated slur in the score, which will also be triggering a “legato” playback technique, causing the problem? How exactly are you triggering the hammer-on and pull-off techniques?

One of my friend was the recording engineer for Ample Sound Chinese PIPA VSTs.
I’ll ask him to tell Ample Sound about this, suggesting them to make their official Dorico playback templates.

UPDATE: Bad news. They are less likely to do that due to their limited human resources.
They are busy making new Chinese instrument VSTs (instrument name is classified at this moment).
They even have no time to do NKS support.

To trigger a hammer on/ pull of and / or legato slide I have to put a keyswitch under the first note to start the technique and overlap this first note with the second one. The technique is then played at the moment of the overlap which is not the case on Dorico. Moreover, the technique once played must be automatically deactivated on the VSTi to return to the previous mode (either sustain or palm mute, or natural harmonic) which is not the case, it remains on the legato slide or hammer on technique without being played.

So indeed, the only thing that differentiates techniques that don’t work from techniques that do is the overlapping of notes.

If you manually overlap the notes by editing them in the piano roll editor in Play mode, do you find that you get the expected playback?

@Daniel Alas, no it doesn’t work.

Besides, when I launch a live recording and play with my midi controller the hammer on pull off and legato slide doesn’t work even if the technique is well activated.

All cases:

Slur + overlap by default in piano roll dorico = does not work
Slur + overlap manually in piano roll dorico = does not work
No Slur + manual overlap in piano roll dorico = does not work

@ShikiSuen Thank you for your response,

Indeed, if you have a friend who works at Ample Sound it would be nice to ask.

I’m afraid I’m at the limit of what I can suggest, short of getting hold of the specific virtual instrument you’re using. Which specific instrument is it you’re using?

That would be marvellous because ample sound for sure has the best sounding guitar libraries on the market and their approach is quite unique. But even me - as a guitarist – I’m using the ample guitars and basses every now and then …
So using them in Dorico would be absolutely great and alas I don’t have the time (and the knowledge) to fiddle round with expression maps.
So any resolution will be appreciated.

@Ibadez38
The friend I mentioned above is not an employee but an independent studio owner & mastering engineer & MIDI producer.

There are prejudices in MIDI production industry in (probably not only) Mainland China that only using a DNW (digital notation workstation like Dorico) cannot make good MIDI productions. They only believe in working directly with DAW and giant libraries like Cinematic Studio Strings, etc.

I am shredding this by using NotePerformer + Dorico with mixes performed in Studio One.

@Daniel

I mainly use Ample Guitar M https://www.amplesound.net/en/pro-pd.asp?id=4
but also Ample Bass P https://www.amplesound.net/en/pro-pd.asp?id=9

But in both cases the legato slide hammer techniques don’t work.

You can try them for free here: https://www.amplesound.net/en/download.asp