Ivory Towers are not cool.
Ivory Towers are not cool.
Just a recent example from Adobe retracting a useless let’s-not-scare-the-newbie “feature” after thousands of user complaints, with an apology mind you… All is not lost, maybe.
NoiseBoyuk, you sing good but your voice is very bad…i don’t think you understand
Steinberg’s marketing and plans…they do not care about existing users…they know
they got us stuck with them…all they look at is new features (of course non working)
just to draw new users in. They don’t care about our 50 bucks for upgrade, they care
about 300-400-500$ new users coming in. Its that simple.
I appreciate the effort Steinberg put in some of the new workflow features, heavily inspired by Studio One (keep doing it), but some serious issues have been reported countless times since December/2014 and still not fixed. Again:
Steinberg, please listen and take action.
Every time a new update comes out we say: “OMG! another new synth and couple of new (wanted) features (lots of unwanted), but what about bugs?! Old bugs?! and ancient bugs?! and workflow!!!” and we’re begging SB to listen to the user base, but nothing changes - new release - and it’s all the same.
VST Transit… SoundCloud… collaboration… I just see thousands of “composers” driving here and there across Australia looking for inspiration and longing for collaboration with someone they’ve never met before to give them blalbla and get from them blablalba… what next? connection to astronauts??? If you guys have to search for inspiration then stop doing music just drop it, go and do something else in your life, because there are a lot of people who can write music every minute non-stop and to be able to do it they need decent reliable software without workarounds (for years).
Come on Steinberg, do you REALLY think that a new customer will choose Cubase because of a new synth?!?!
Cubase is not a tool, this is environment or OS. We need workflow enhancements and features which will help us work with less mouse clicks etc. And all functions must work without workarounds that’s it. It’s time to recognize it.
I’m on the same boat, but with an eye constantly open and a license of Reaper just in case.
I am quite happy with Cubase. I have a few annoyances which I wish would change but in general there is no other DAW that gives me what Cubase does. Specifically the way of editing MIDI and expression maps. Cubase is a very robust and complete DAW. IMHO probably the best. But this is a very relative thing, everyone has their own workflow and preferences. I haven’t had any major issues with Cubase 7, 7.5, 8 or 8.5. I don’t know but I never have major issues with my computers (PC and MAC) even after using many versions of all kinds of software.
Years ago I would use pirated software. I had all kinds of issues. Now, every single piece of software, samples, instruments, plugins on my computer has been legally purchased and I rarely have major issues. In fact, I can’t even remember when was the last time I had a major issue. I upgraded to 8.5 as soon as I saw the news. I upgraded to 8 two weeks into the announcement. I haven’t even had anti-virus for 2 years. I’m not saying every person that has an issue has pirated software or is on porn sites. I am aware that everyone has a different setup and issues can arise from the slightest difference in setup but I can’t help but wonder if some (many) of the issues some users have are because of illegally downloaded software. Not necessarily Cubase, but any software.
If you don’t have any pirated software, then I feel for you and I hope your issues get fixed soon so you can continue making great music. But if you do have any pirated software, you really can’t expect to have a smooth running setup and have no right to complain about issues.
Now, when it comes to features and workflow, ultimately the product is for us. They should listen to us very closely. It’s just smart business. Give the customers what they want and they will keep coming back and even be glad to pay for point updates because we get what we need and want.
I am not defending Steinberg at all but I think sometimes some users go too far in their complaining. Major complaining about every tiny thing. Sometimes I think people just complain because that’s all they know. Steinberg could address every single issue everyone has ever brought up and some people will still find something to complain about.
However, I do agree that Steinberg should listen to and address our concerns much more than they currently seem to do.
Just to be clear, I’m not accusing everyone who has an issue of pirating software. I can’t know who is and who isn’t. I just see things based on my experience and other people I know.
I can image monthly bugfix/hotfix updates… A team specialized in doing just that.
Maybe tackle from 5-20 bugs every month.
The new major releases can then boast with new features and not bugfixes. (.0&.5)
That would be a great idea. It would be a ridiculous proposal but I would be willing to pay $5/month for them to do that.
Im not gonna pay for things that should already work…
Ok, but in essence you’re singing the exact same tune.
If new users coming in happen to read reviews in and outside of this forum, won’t they be tempted to go elsewhere when they see a whole bunch of complaints and unhappy existing users here who are growing increasingly tired and frustrated from release to release?
For instance I did just that before I came here from Sonar when I jumped in at 7.0.
If I were Steinberg’s head of the decision committee, I’d post the following statement [where applicable to Cubase]:
I’d like to personally apologize for the quality of the Lightroom 6.2 release we shipped on Monday. The team cares passionately about our product and our customers and we failed on multiple fronts with this release. In our efforts to simplify the import experience we introduced instability that resulted in a significant crashing bug. The scope of that bug was unclear and we made the incorrect decision to ship with the bug while we continued to search for a reproducible case(Reproducible cases are essential for allowing an engineer to solve a problem). The bug has been fixed and today’s update addresses the stability of Lightroom 6.
I’d also announce that this was in the works, so as to inform the current user base, [which would be highly considerate], and also prevent most from being tempted to look elsewhere while they patiently wait for ‘said promises’.
Then, before long, Steinberg would have [and be known for] a ‘top notch, stellar, no bugs, works excellent’ DAW that others would migrate to, which would also be supported and boasted about here, there and everywhere from Cubase users all over the globe.
Then Steinberg would recoup their temporary losses from doing this, by attracting newer users all the time, and also prevent their existing user base from shopping elsewhere, [which I’m sure we’d all much rather stay then go], since most, if not all, would then be quite happy and productive as designed.
Of course, that’s why I said it would be a ridiculous proposal. But in a very extreme case, I’d be willing to do that for a short time if that would guarantee a certain number of bug fixes a month.
All it would need is one or two patches with a bigger number of fixes and a faster timing of delivery.(specially for the older and more annoying ones- VSL mute bug, graphic annoyances,…).
This system of 3 or 4 patches per version in last few versions (usually it takes approx. 4 months for each one) is quite problematic. It makes software unusable (if the issues are show stoping) for the majority of time and gets fixed just in time when a new version with new issues arrives. Also they changed the numbering to be more suitable for hotfixing (they added a zero at the end), but in Cubases case there wasnt a single hotfix yet.
Also if totally necessary I would pay for stability (But some of the issues are quite old so we already payed quite a few times). I like working in Cubase, Id just like that it would get more stable and problem free.
The current state is not good at all.
Great Post… +1
All the features in the world means nothing if the program is full of bugs and we can’t use the features fully anyway.
Noiseboyuk, your letter has been written so many times in the past. I should accuse you of plagiarism since I wrote this…back when Cubase SX was released.
This cycle is nothing new at all. However since Cubase 6.5 I think the cycle has become increasingly vicious because as more users become experienced over time, the Cubase faults shine brighter. But to offset this, new users think everything is almost perfect. Some of them morph into fanboys, then wars start, then most silently slip away or re-invent themselves under a new name, and come back with a bit more experience. The cycle is endless.
Follow the money. It’s not coming from pro users. It’s coming from kids who want that “make me a hit” preset. And they want it now…screw the manual or even video tutorials.
Keep things in perspective. I would guess active participants here represent maybe 1% of total users.
But at the end of the day what are you going to do? For myself I simply lower my expectations of Steinberg. I haven’t found any alternatives because Cubase is still the best for what I do.
Just to be clear - I think Cubase is a great program. Personally I’m not looking elsewhere - I’m welded to Cubase for better or worse until any other competitor offers midi CC control over EuCon, which none do (and this has been the case for many years). Cubase does some stuff better than any other DAW on the market, and I want to see it improve rather than look elsewhere.
Here’s hoping that, if nothing else, this gets a dialogue going. Getting some of the software folks to visit here once in a while could be transformative. And don’t laugh ye cynics - Microsoft engaged actively on Gearslutz for many months ahead of W10, personally replying to queries, taking suggestions and so on. It was remarkably civil, forum conversation doesn’t have to be a bear pit.
Reading through the replies, I have an uncomfortable feeling that Steinberg might deduce that Subscription is the answer. Actually, maybe it would help, but only if done absolutely right. Sonar customers seem very happy with their subscription model, crucially you can opt in and out any time without penalty, and you keep a permanent license. At the other end of the scale we have Avid, a company who relocated to Mordor a number of years ago and who seem hellbent on discovering new and innovative ways to wave goodbye to loyal customers at great personal cost.
I really don’t know if subs would honestly help this issue. If done right, a la Sonar, I’d be happy. I somehow doubt its absolutely necessary though. What I think is essential is that some serious head scratching goes on at Steinberg. As someone who absolutely wants to see them succeed and remain top of the tree - indeed I’d love to see them really start to encroach on Pro Tools’ territory - there needs to be a better plan of how to get there.
Greggybud - you had me until “follow the money” which lands at kids with presets. They have no money, or what they do have they won’t spend on legal software. Cubase is now called Pro 8, I don’t think we should lose sight of the fact that this is a serious tool designed for (and used by) professionals. Also, back in SX days, the competition was hardly the same as now - the marketplace has changed completely. Just because something was true then, doesn’t mean it is false now, and it might be time to reassess strategy.