An open plea to Steinberg

I suggest that all that complain should first read the book ‘Perfect Software, and other illusions of testing’…

https://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Software-Other-Illusions-Testing/dp/0932633692

Look at the big picture, has Apple ever released flawless software? Has Microsoft delivered ever pefect software?

My 2 cts (as QA specialist)

Actually, we do care a lot and the release of Dorico is not an indication as it is a completely different development branch with a different development team in a different location. Also, Dorico’s Daniel Spreadbury communicated very openly what Dorico will be in its first incarnation and what it is not going to be. We even had the pre-release forum online months before its release to discuss with users and made them aware of what to expect.

The next big Cubase version will have a lot to offer and will address workflow complaints and bugs at the same time.

That’s the definition of a red herring… or strawman…

The issue isn’t delivering a perfect software, the issue is fixing what is advertised and broken.

Further more, I don’t really understand the desire by users to give software companies all this leeway. When was the last time we heard similar arguments about cars, or coffee machines, or kitchenware? When you come home and your nice dinner set has plates with cracks in them, does the seller say “Look at the big picture, there’s no such thing as a perfect product.”? Nope, instead you get a refund because you didn’t get what you paid for. But somehow so many software users have allowed themselves to get bent over rather than push for what’s right.

What he just said…

I think I’ve been reading such comments for too many years now. What changed? Ehm…
Cubase does the job, no matter the half-baked functions. What can be done, show goes on. If a tool is bent out of shape a bit, you can still use it. Sure, If my new shiny car was bent a bit, I would drive it back to seller, let them fix it. But software seems to be another story, or another universe…

i agree 100%. The shame is the false marketing hope we were given at the start of the year when $teinberg did the whole “We are listening now…we werent listening before, but we are listening now…trust us. See, to prove it heres a poll for you to vote for things for us to fix…” and then it was quickly ignored and “business as usual”.

How many times can they “cry wolf” and tell us they are finally listening NOW…but continue to ignore the cries for FIXES FIRST im not sure. Seems like its forever?

@Ed, i really hope cubase will finally address the random pops and crackles when multiprocessing is enabled, dissabling multi processing sets my PC 10 years back in time, but especially with loads of I/O (32 channels summing), several ext ins, 40 instrument inputs, Cubase just can’t hold-up. Ever since ASIO Guard has been introduced, things went downhill. Now in Win10 it’s even more sensitive. I’m NOT interested in new features or fx, or synths AT ALL, untill this is sorted. Wavelab works great! Other daws have none of these issues. It’s really a Cubase audio engine issue.

Grateful for that post, Ed. Daring to hope that 9 will be a positive step forward.

I’ll believe it when I see the comments from those who’ll jump on the first iteration of Cubase 9. Based on their reports, I’ll make my decision on whether to upgrade or not :slight_smile:.

That’s the definition of a red herring… or strawman…

The issue isn’t delivering a perfect software, the issue is fixing what is advertised and broken.

Further more, I don’t really understand the desire by users to give software companies all this leeway. When was the last time we heard similar arguments about cars, or coffee machines, or kitchenware? When you come home and your nice dinner set has plates with cracks in them, does the seller say “Look at the big picture, there’s no such thing as a perfect product.”? Nope, instead you get a refund because you didn’t get what you paid for. But somehow so many software users have allowed themselves to get bent over rather than push for what’s right.

Your reasoning is very subjective. For me Cubase works as advertised. For many non-complainers it just works (que… Apple). I see many users with a specific issue that occurs on their system only, or at least a very limited group. I also see some issues with performance being mentioned (CPU load for example) which I think should be addressed in the next release. This being said, the VST load limitiation is again a Windows issue as I understand. My point is that there is not a unified issue that breaks the whole Cubase experience for all users, and the book I shamelessly plugged deals with that. It is impossible to write software that works flawwless on all parts of an open ecosystem such as Windows PC’s.

If you want flawless recording/ mixing without software bugs, go for an oldschool hardware based setup, without a computer. Otherwise deal with soft and hardware issues.

Btw, the problems with quality in software is based on waived consumer rights in the USA, to stimulate silicon valley. Now that these companies are too big to fail, these arrangements will remain forever, I am afraid…

The plopping and crackling problems many have are real, they all have to do with 8.xx and are beyond applying top 10 daw optimization lists. Cubase is also the only daw displaying this behaviour, regardless of buffer size, power scheme, core parking etc etc. They REALLY need to be resolved.

Are you sure it is Cubase? Really? If so, you should offer your services to Steinberg as QA analist…

I had pops and clicks recently too, after a Win10 update. plugging my sound card to a different USB pot fixed that, prolly a different issue, but who knows? Maybe your system only has one chipset that is negatively affected by an OS update?

Again, there are infinite configurations of PC systems, with infinite compatibility issues. On Mac, the closed system on the other hand often makes it difficult for devs to test new OS features in time as Apple releases test versions pretty late in their cycle, hence the always delayed green light with a new OSX version. Software development can be a real beach sometimes…

I’m a very educated user. I use a RME MadiFX, I’ve tried all the setting suggestions, NOTHING works. Like many in the click and plops thread. This IS a Cubase 8.5.2 issue, I had to reinstall 7.5.4 in order to be able to finish a project.

Sounds indeed like a CB8 series issue, however, did you try to single out the cause by using, for example a different system with the same RME card? Did you try a different sound card on your current system? Have you been in contact with Steinberg, and have they confirmed the issue? Do all RME MadiFX users run into the same issue? I do notice that on the RME site a lot can cause pops and clicks related to Cubendo and settings on other components/ chipsets, which held me off a while ago to look for a new sound card from that brand to replace my Komplete Audio 6. Glad I did not do it as I had my issue fixed recently…

Not saying that you have to do all I said, but as QA professional (ook een kaaskop btw :wink:), I know that a bug can have a zillion causes, so unless there is a near 100% fool proof reproduction of an issue, it will be hard to actually find the cause and get it fixed.

VinnieD!

It seems like you’ve missed many issues mentioned in this thread that involve unfinished features and bugs that have persist for years in Cubase, and which affect ALL users to a different degree. Obviously, if you don’t use any of these features then it doesn’t affect you, and for YOU Cubase would indeed be working as advertised. But you can’t assume that everyone has the same workflow as you.

Also, I have software that works as advertise and, when it doesn’t, it gets fixed as soon as possible (i.e. Reaper, FabFilter, Toontrack, UAD, Izotope, etc). All of those work flawlessly for me. Why is Steinberg the exception?

If anything RME is one of the few hardware companies that quickly addresses any issues they encounter with constant updates. I’ve been an RME user for almost 10 years and don’t have anything but respect for that company. They also deliver what they advertise everytime!

Very true!

There are hundreds of verified-by-steinberg bugs. So why don’t they get fixed? Follow the money. Depending on your workflow they may or may not be important.

For example myself working with 4 video monitors (using all 3 mix consoles) and lots of outboard synths and hardware interfaced by 4 MOTU Midi Timepieces for 32 in/outs and a QconPro…my biggest complaints are centered around navigation and focus issues because I value fast workflow, and make use of as many key commands to make things more efficient on a daily basis.

But for the user just using a laptop, the potential issues will be very different.

As said before, for any business…follow the money. It’s a compromise between prosumers who are in the drivers seat for all DAW’s as opposed to those every-day and professional users. Unlike the things and concepts that appeal to prosumers, I believe the OP, as well as myself, are asking for more resources devoted to making what already exists work…or work better and focus on bugs.

And by the way, since 1997 I have never had any crackling (unless I purposely set my buffer size too low) or resource issues…ever. I’m guessing one reason is my PC’s have been built for audio by people who know DAW’s.

Cubase can work as advertised only for those who never use the many flawed features. Otherwise, it is impossible to say that it works as advertised. There are simply too many quirks.

If one doesn’t use multiple screens, one cannot encounter problems with windows not being placed properly. If one doesn’t use Generic Remote, one cannot encounter issues and inconsistencies there. If one doesn’t use render in place, one will never see bugs there. And so on.

One thing are system related problems, like skipping audio and midi latency. But another thing are bugs which are result of sloppy programmers, or not enough resources.

Clearly Cubase will not work well on a broken system. But on a system where other DAWs work fine, Cubase should work fine too. And several bugs should have been fixed months or years ago. And inconsistencies should never be there in the first place. And when will they ever update Generic Remote to include all mixer and channel functions? Ehh…

So one person complains his screen system has issues with navigation, but he NEVER had issues with pops etc… because he has a dedicated build as system… another person’s issue is WITH pops etc…

Again… many issues indeed, but for relative small groups of the user base. Your issues are severe, but not high in priority as they are not representing the majority of users. Indeed probably a commercial choice, but hey, with a plenty open issues and limited resources choices have to be made.

I do understand all your concerns, but posting in a thread like this is not helping getting issues fixed. Posting proper bug reports in their respective places will work much better then a whine fest in a general thread.

Bottom line is, you as individual consumers have only one way to ultimately have influence over a company, with your wallet.

Btw, this is my last post in this thread, as I have better things to do, like make more music. I’ll just agree to disagree with y’all

Have a great day!

The forum is flooded with cracks and pops issues. :frowning: