An open plea to Steinberg

Follow the money. It’s not coming from pro users. It’s coming from kids who want that “make me a hit” preset. And they want it now…screw the manual or even video tutorials.

Forget Pro vs Amateur or the kids (amateur: meaning doing it for the enjoyment and passion and not for profit, some amateur work is even better quality than some pro etc) this is almost not relevant these days. Pro or amateur will happily pay if they can afford it, whatever the age range, (if it is available for free, many will happily take that too). The strength of word of mouth has never been more important to affect sales, happy customers will talk about it and encourage others to also enjoy what they have found.

If it is there then does it work correctly and if it does not, why not? there is nothing worse than a product that does not function correctly to affect sales. It will quickly out do the inclusion of any bells or whistles or the latest cool feature…(soundcloud export , VST cloud etc, etc). Look at the negative review sites for Hotels, holiday companies, delivery companies, restaurants they are all affected by negative reviews and it has never been easier for word to get around.

It would be a huge mistake for Steinberg to pander to the new generation of instant gratification. That is not to say elegant workflows that helps quicken work are not crucial but this is something different. Where does it end? Soundcloud is not guaranteed to be the future choice where people share their music, so what will Steinberg do now they have opened a can of worms, add every other music service to the Export options? completely unrealistic. They are effectively marketing Soundcloud as a service, did any money change hands?

Steinberg should concentrate on the fact that they are the authors of so many innovations in the Audio sequencer world not least VST. If however they are getting sidetracked by providing what they think the cool kids might want, things might be going a little off track. The ‘Industry’ has changed beyond all recognition in a very short time and technology moves at a rapid pace, get the basics right, protect and build on your innovations do things well, and retain as well as win new customers.

Personally I am trying to stand by the Software and the company I chose a long time ago over the competition becuase it just felt right to me.

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i’ve installed C8.5 yesterday and played with it in the studio, till i get a phone call from my wife at 4.00 in the night… there’s a lot of exciting new stuff, but some of the more annoying bugs are still there.
I know it was not only a mere “cosmetic” update, it really has a lot of good new functionalities (being one of the the possibility to hoover the mouse to the edges of the windows to open or close tabs and function windows), but also the new time/pitch strech engine with is really good, and a lot of other things.
But the old bugs (mentioned earlier… i’m not going to repeat them) should be in front of everything else.
New features are very well welcome, but please, fix the bugs before.
I would gladly prefer to wait one whole year before a new version come out (in Christmas 2016), than having new point version in six months just to get some small fixes and new looks.
Please SB take care of all your custumers
Merry Christmas to everybody :slight_smile:


Cubase is currently ahead of the competition when it comes to features, but far behind when it comes to overall polish. Not to mention that so many of it’s features are great ideas, but unfinished and buggy. As someone who’s used most of the popular DAW’s on the market, using cubase is like walking through a familiar mine field; You know where the mines are, but if you drop your guard even for a second…disaster happens. Even though I find cubase generally stable, I know of at least a dozen ways to make it crash, all of which I have to constantly keep in mind, and more importantly, every time I try something new, or try to change my workflow a little, I run into a bug or problem. So unlike other DAW’s on the market, which try to get out of the way as much as possible, in Cubase I have to always be on guard. And frankly, that is no way to make music… it really kills the spontaneity and inspiration.

It sure does…

Well put. Wouldn’t it be nice if you could just get on with your work without that looming crash… Aside from Cubase I use Ableton Live. I can count on one hand the number of times that has crashed in the past year. OK, it’s nowhere near as complex, but sometimes that’s what’s called for.

Pro software should always have a focus on quality. Cubase has so many nice features, but when you touch them sligthly changes are great that you run into odd behaviour (PLE, visability filters, macro, remote editor stuff, etc.). Instead of fixing, more features (hence bugs) are added.

Sad enough it’s a soft/hardware industry standard. If I remember correctly Mackie threw a soundcard on the market without any driver stating you had to use asio4all…(?).

I’m pretty sure that (proven!) focus on quality would be much more attractive then any new feature. Specificly in the long run…

We are all stunned over here that the long standing bugs are still here with 8.5 not to mention the mixer window showstopper on multiple screens in 8.5. Even the guy who’s writing our sampler app is stunned: “It’s not rocket science, and who the hell is beta testing this thing… the end user???” It’s just sad.

Thanks, I needed a laugh…
… (just not a broken rib from doing it so hard)

Business normally works the way where you advertise certain functionality of your good or service, and then negotiate a price and sell the product. If you as a customer buy something that isn’t what it was marketed as being, either by being defective or falsely advertised, then normally you not only have the right to return the good (or service) for a refund, but people actually do this frequently.

Not only that, but when companies refuse to honor that basic legal right lawsuits happen, and companies have to pay up. This happens all the time.

Saying that it’s a business doesn’t even qualify as an argument. Did you hear Volkswagen use that defense when their product didn’t perform as advertised? No? Well then, there you go…

And by the way: This is like the millionth time this happens. It’s always the same;

  1. users complain about stuff that isn’t working and say they need that to be a priority
  2. users dream about cool new features and start “wishing-threads”
  3. Steinberg (or other) offer a paid upgrade with new features
  4. users notice persisting bugs as well as new ones
  5. Go back to step 1…

Guess which step is the one which makes it absolutely certain that there will continue to be releases with bugs in them?

Love your Avatar!

To break out of this horrible cycle I think would require a big price increase. Personally I’m willing to pay for it simply to break away from being held hostage by this prosumer market that drives all DAWs including Cubase. I’m confident there is a small market that wants core functions and workflow prioritized without the “features” prosumers and new users get excited about. Often it’s just a marketing ploy. Think about it. We have gone WAY past the evolutionary end of the basic DAW. Upgrades cost the same, but the refinements of core functions and workflow seem less and less. I am super happy this 8.5 included midi/velocity improvements. But with it came the cloud, vst transit, an upgraded VSTI, and just like Native Instruments until recently, a upgraded, but I think closed Media Bay system…unless it’s open to VST3? Does anyone know for sure?

Today it’s about selling features for the sake of features…not so much functionality or workflow.

Thank you sir.

If you mean that a much higher price would finally make consumers not pay for it which would force SB to deal with issues, then maybe yes.

It’s a bit ironic I think, because as much as PT users have complained about the incredibly messy transition from one licensing model to another there appears to be some merit to the underlying concept. With a steady revenue stream they can put out minor updates more frequently and not look that bad, as long as they every now and then inject something bigger. With SB it seems they’ve painted themselves into a corner of “stubborn” (or “greed”) where they just simply can’t even consider dealing with some bigger issues an truly making them priorities while delaying something else. It’d mess up their rigid schedule, and we can’t have that.

The one thing I’d say is that Nuendo is more expensive and the same thing happens there. In fact, it’s not without irony that this conversation is held in the Cubase section seeing that one of the broken new features of Nuendo v7 that so many looked forward to is supposedly a “priority”… after tweaking Cubase… and adding “transit” and whatever… and programming a new version of a VSTi… and so on…

“priority”. A difficult word.

I’m not 100% sure I agree 100% with the above… and that’s a mostly true statement…

+1 – The features are already great. The bugs are driving me crazy and wasting my time.


I’m really disappointed… :cry:

I used Cubase since 2000.

Maybe I should jump ship to Nuendo > it seems after all these years they first dump all this shit on us and fix it in Nuendo :unamused:

There has to be a reason why Nuendo always is a few steps behind Cubase… :bulb:

It would be REALLY NICE to hear from STEINBERG on this post.
Pretty please. :smiley: :slight_smile: :wink: :frowning: :astonished: :open_mouth: :confused: :sunglasses: :laughing: :angry: :stuck_out_tongue: :cry: :imp: :smiling_imp: :unamused: :exclamation: :question:

You’re joking, right?

Nuendo has received exactly one maintenance update for version 7, since its release. One. How many did Cubase get? 5? Pro Tools 6 I think. And in this one update the most severe bugs, yes, plural, were NOT fixed. On top of that a representative said that it was now a priority to fix said bug, and five-six weeks later here we are with a new VSTi, and a new Cubase 8.5.

There might be fewer bugs in Nuendo, but it doesn’t receive the priority the price discrepancy implies, and it’s not without serious bugs either.

The only way any of this can be solved for either Nuendo or Cubase users is if people stop paying for updates while bugs persist. Does anyone really think that’s going to happen?

as always after the .5 release there will be an 8.0.40 or 8.0.50 release, let’s see what that means!

I mean a higher price to separate the prosumers from every-day experienced professional users. Prosumers love new features, are less experienced, and use Cubase casually. Unfortunately I think they are the huge majority therefore any DAW has to be married to them for survival. Lets say they are 90% of the DAW market.

So 10%, meaning the every day experienced and professional users, pay a much higher price. But in return the resources are spent on bug fixes, improved workflow, improved integration and support for 3rd parties, and improved technical support. This horrible and endless DAW cycle of new “features” that are eye-candy for newbies, which often bring more bugs, some of which are never fixed… is broken.

Better integration means ENCOURAGING 3rd parties to join what Steinberg has just done with their drums and loops in their media bay instead of saying “its a closed Steinberg thing.” It means the DAW maker focusing on their own core functions while allowing 3rd parties to directly integrate with the mix console. Instead of a Steinberg created mix console that exists now, why not pay an optional additional price for UAD or Waves to integrate an SSL or API console? These things can be done, but not when you keep having to seduce new users with LoopMash or a new VST.

I hope someone recognizes a small but growing demand for this.

I think you hit the point, the hobbiest is the majority user for cubase and it makes sense to give them 2nd rate SB original Vst instruments bundled with cloud and the latest trends, because this is a for profit business and I get that, however that didn’t Impact Cubase until we got to 7 in my opinion when the mixer was overhauled, changed , and since then so many bugs and issues like I have never seen in ten years of using Cubase. Exasurbated with 8, it’s an all time low right now for reliability. Just look at the threads.

There is a reason pro tools HD is the professional standard, however it’s to expensive for me to get the 24 stereo input I need, I don’t do post, I compose for indie films, and hand off stems to post house, and I like the midi functionality, and the fonts are very easy to read ( compared to digital performer ) so here I stay on 8.10 because 8.30 won’t work on my new i7 PC. I decided not to get 8.5 based on the bugs reported.

I would like to see Cubase and nuendo become one platform , call it Cubendo 10, like pro tools , first build ONE daw framework that is solid , stable, and works , and charge for add ons that people can choose how to spend their money with post production being the pro version. ( add ons could be vsts, cloud, video, add on post tools, add on composer tools ) for example. Yes I am dreaming away, dream dream dream, repeat after me …