When a new versions is released every year, ie 7.5, 8, 8.5 you are never going to iron out the bugs as SB will always be thinking of the new upcoming release rather than doing real fixes for the present release, after all what is the point in fixing it when a new one will be due out in a few months and the old one forgotten about.
There is just not enough time between releases to make any of them work correctly, I think software companies really need to rethink how they release software. I don’t know the solution but I do know it doesn’t work well the way it is and I definitely don’t want a subscription model.
I do hope the decision to go 64 bit only in the next release is so that the core software can be completely re written from the ground up removing lots of problems from having to make things work in both 32 and 64 bit. If this is the case then CB9 could be a completely new beast.
matjones: I do agree with you, but rightly or wrongly I don’t think that Steinberg comments on these kinds of issues. Personally I think that Cubase qualifies as over-complex. There are so many functions and options that it must be impossible to alter one parameter without it affecting another. Solve one problem and you create another. Surely there must come a time when Steinberg have to do a fundamental re-write with a modern computer language?
I agree more money will not necessarily translate to bug fixes, that’s idealistic. I fully support one core system that is stable and solid with alacarte modular add ons that we can choose as mentioned in this thread. The gripe by professionals and others here is not with hobbiest or casual users, it’s that Steinberg appears to have gotten ahead of itself trying to grow user base with New VSTs and gimmicks leaving bug fixes, performance, and stability a lower priority.
That’s my perception, if bug fixes are a high priority then I ask that Steinbetg do better.
I find it kind of amusing to read, not only in this thread, the impossible demands the users set.
We want bug fixes, workflow enhancement, and new features that are better than in any other daw.
During the Cubase 4-5-6 cycle people would complain endlessly about the toy mixer.
Cubase 7 arrives, and people complain about the new mixer that no one asked for, and that the arranger does not have the right look.
Cubase 8 arrives and people complain about new stuff, we want workflow enhancement.
Cubase 8.5 arrives that primarily has workflow enhancement, and people complain about missing bug fixes, and to many shiny new stuff. ???
And hey I’m not better than anybody else, it’s only human to be carried away when there is something you feel passionate about.
But where is the realism.
Steinberg is a tiny company, even though they are owned by Yamaha that makes little difference when it comes to the actual coding of their products. How are they to satisfy all those contradicting demands, and still make a living ?
IMHO they do a great job balancing the needs of their costumers, all things considered.
And don’t lets forget the two major OS upgrades recently, they’ve had to deal with. One of which screwed over their entire product range. Including hardware. Lost them easily a month or two I’d estimate, of their original planning/scheduling/fixing/testing/improvements programme…
I paid full price for Cubase 8 Pro. GUI is so broken that my audio stutters in front of my customers, singers, musicians etc. I myself find it hard to edit or scroll through anything while playing audio.
Reported bug, it is recognized as legit - as I’m not the only one with the problem, and the problem is hardware independent. Forced to work in 7.5 version now…
Check it for yourself: https://youtu.be/rsWKOHND1pY
So, paying money for (almost) broken product and expecting fix is not contradicting demand, you must sure agree?
I really appreciate your stepping in and defending poor, cornered Steinberg, it’s a nice thing to do, but yes, I say this with a little bit of sarcasm.
I’ve used Cubase since the Atari times, but I’ve only recently joined this forum because I wasn’t understanding where Cubase was heading after v7. This means I missed all the complaints about the old mixer, which by the way, I still find superior. I am hearing this for the first time, but again, I wasn’t on this forum long enough to contradict you.
But this is not really the point, as far as I see it. There will always be people complaining, other asking for the moon, other asking for a “Make The Song Under the Mouse Cursor a Hit” button. This is nothing new and yes, it’s hard to please everybody, it’s definitely a hard thing to manage, but this is no excuse for releasing a buggy software.
If SB really is that overwhelmed with the tempo that it’s user base is trying to set, it’s their job to prioritize things in such a way that they can deliver a solid release, and not a heavily bugged one as was the case with pretty much every release since 8.0. Fixing bugs should always be priority number 1 since people are paying actual money for a certain feature set that is supposed to work exactly as advertised. Did you notice how many people on this forum rolled back to a previous version after each 8.* release? Do you find this ok?
Did you notice how old some of the major bugs reports are? 1, 2 or even 3 years. Do you find this amusing too?
But then they find the time and resources to rewrite the mixer in 7, then the UI in 8 or the cloud thingy in 8.5 for example, which I am pretty sure nobody asked for. Instead on focusing on functionality and workflow issues, now they had to fix a broken UI.
Have the Cubase 8 UI issues been ironed out, a year after the 8.0 release? Really, really not, on the contrary, in some cases they’ve multiplied.
What about the constant changes they make from dot-release to dot-release without asking the users if they’re OK with it?
So, for the sake of the good old times where Cubase was the best DAW out there, I too would like to cut them some slack, but it’s getting harder and harder, with every release, which is why we’re here, debating about this.
This is a very important point. People are paying actual money for this product. Really, from custommers view, software should be without bugs, everything should work as advertised. Ther should be ZERO crashes after you pay full price for software.
Some try to say that it is ok to have bugs, and even that it is nothing wrong with bugs, that we must be real, reality is such that there will always be bugs. Really, we’ve come so far? We are expected to pay full price for buggy software, and should just live with that as if this is all normal? Since when is that the new normal?
If you buy any goods, and it is flawed, you can get discount for it, to compensate for flaws. OK, if they want to sell buggy software, but bugs should be listed up front for all to see, and price should be discounted due to bugs. I would buy buggy Cubase at discounted price. But they shouldn’t charge full price for flawed product.
Maybe software companies should be obliged to pay back to customers for every crash and bug that is there in final product. This would be fair. That for every crash you get 5eur back from your purchase. That would teach them a lesson not to release buggy software.
And Cubase is really buggy, I don’t think there is any “Pro” software out there that is buggy to such degree, and with old unresolved bugs since years ago. For most companies it is simply unimaginable to release such product and charge actual money for it.
If Cubase was free product, or “pay what you want”, then they could do whatever they want. Or if it had policy like Reaper, where you get really A LOT for those 60eur, then one could live with bugs (and in stark contrast to Cubase, Reaper fixes bugs regularly, all the time, even weekly).
Steinberg is doing its business very badly, in a typical consumer oriented money hungry way - a lot of fancy advertising for not so many features. Consumer is paying a lot for very little real gain.
Ableton did a good step some time ago - they stopped development of new features, and focused only on fixing bugs. I think it is time that Steinberg does the same.
I find it kind of amusing to read, not only in this thread, the impossible demands the users set.
I sincerely hope you are not sitting there chuckling away at other peoples frustrations;-)
*Kennedy’s famous message to Congress on May 25, 1961, set the goal:
This nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before the decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth.
Everyone knows what happens next (apart from those of this world who choose to believe the conspiracy theories)
This comparison falls down but shows that goalposts are constantly shifting, ‘The impossible demands’ are now that Steinberg addreses a number of issues. Achievable? a resounding yes, as Kennedy shows it was with his challenge.
I have a lot of sympathy for this. It’s undeniable that as a community of users, people are always clamouring for different things, complaining about whatever has just been changed etc. And of course it’s Steinberg’s job to push through new changes that are ultimately better, and also field and prioritise the vast number of requests and fixes.
But that really is exactly what this thread is about. Do we keep on rolling down the tracks on this runaway train, or do we try and have a period of consolidation? Take the new mixer in 7. From day one I personally thought it was an improvement conceptually, but it needed some time to get to where it is now (still not perfect, I’m not a fan of the new sends / insert display which I can no longer read or understand is everything now says “drr…rb1” or something equally incomprehensible). But of course at this stage I don’t want them to throw it all out and start again or far worse bring back the old one (which, now that the new mixer has matured, everyone seems to have forgotten about), I want them to keep improving it.
And that goes for the whole DAW. Disabled tracks - with each passing day people are realising what a revolutionary concept that is and how it can completely change how we work. But since introduced, it is still way too buggy which really precludes its general use. In practice, that means that the revolution it should have ushered in is greatly stunted. They’ve had the Big Idea (GREAT!), implemented it, and left it hanging. Fix the bugs and improve the workflow (eg just clicking on a disabled track will enable it as a background task as an option) and suddenly it moves from a niche feature to something everyone can easily embrace.
It’s easy to look at the past, shrug and say “it has always been thus”. And of course it has, there’s nothing new in any of this. The issue really is that with every release, it gets more acute - as the program gets bigger and bigger with more and more bolted on to it, the situation keeps getting worse. At some point, one feels, someone has to call “enough”, and take more time and resources than is normally allocated simply to managing all the current issues. The status quo needs to be re-evaluated.
Seinberg are WELL capable of sorting this out, personally i would welcome a period of consolidation as has been mentioned… i remember when C6 was released and the sheer joy it caused the majority of users, i remember a large amount of us commenting that it was ‘Steinberg’s windows 7’ as for most of us it just worked straight out of the box, as it SHOULD do really… seriously WELL DONE STEINY on that one! The forum chatter at that time was generally incredibly positive too from memory… if i can analogise this to Formula 1; Cubase to me currently feels like the Williams or Force India teams on a good day, SUPERB on long straights where pure grunt and a slippery aerodynamic profile but crap in mid speed corners which is where the speed is really found, when they should be aiming to reach Mercedes’ current level or better!
Just letting you know that we take your feedback seriously: one of the reasons our Marketing Director Frank Simmerlein requested me to post the following:
Rest assured we carefully monitor the forums but that due to the overwhelming response to last week’s 8.5 release while at the same time preparing next week’s Cubase 8.0.35 release, we’re struggling with the current workload. We will respond with details ASAP and are asking you to bear with us a little longer. Excuse us for not getting back to you any sooner.