Another insert page question

I want to insert a blank page to facilitate page turns in a part. I choose a page, try to insert a page before it, and in the dialog box I try to assign the Default master page to it. I hit OK and no page of any kind is inserted. If I don’t assign a master page to it, a blank page is indeed inserted; but then if I try to assign a master page to that, Dorico refuses to do so. (If it helps, every page in the score exhibits the red triangle.)
To add to the confusion, the new page is an even page; the subsequent page, which was originally an even page, still uses the even page master even though it is now an odd page. If the dialog which asks me if I want to perpetuate the new page settings through the rest of the flow functioned, then I would expect things to sort themselves out; but since that dialog doesn’t do anything at all, nothing gets sorted.
The logic of all this is escaping me.

Fundamentally the problem is that you can’t assign a master page change to an overridden page (one that has a red corner), because overrides trump master page changes.

If you insert a page that uses the Default master page, that will leave the music exactly where it is but shunt all of the page overrides along by a page.

If you insert a page that uses no master page, you have a blank page that only exists because you’ve created an override. It’s not there because of a master page change (indicated by a green line), it’s there because you’ve created an override (red corner).

The way I deal with blank pages in parts is to create a new master page, called “Blank”, that is based on Default but is a Custom type.

Then I delete the music frame from both the left and right variant.
If you want to be really fancy you could put in a text frame that says “page intentionally left blank” or an arrow or something.

Then the process for inserting it is to Insert a Page that uses my Blank master page. That then pushes the music and the overrides along in tandem.

The downside is that for every subsequent page that’s overridden, you’ll still need to either remove the overrides or fix the page number manually.

Or just make a blank Master Page based on “None”…

Sure, but it looks weird not to have a page number (and, project dependent, a running header).

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If the blank master page doesn’t have a music frame on it at all, you should also find that just assigning it as a master page change to the page you want blank works as well - the music that would have been on that page gets pushed automatically to the next page. I don’t think this pushes any existing overrides beyond that point back a page in the same way that inserting a page does, as Leo mentioned.

Inserting a page “using” a master page creates a page with a local override - essentially “insert a page that has the frames from the specified master page”. This is subtly different from a page with a master page change applied to it, in that the latter will pick up subsequent edits to the master page.

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Er. Um. I’m not in front of a computer just now, but I’m pretty sure that if you try to assign a master page change to a page that’s already overridden, nothing happens. Please do correct me if I’m wrong.

No that’s exactly the case - I was just meaning to drop in the alternative thought / future opportunity that inserting a page isn’t necessary in the first place: assigning the blank master page directly to a non-overridden page is sufficient to produce the desired end result.

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Ah, gotcha. And indeed I’m pretty sure this variation is the route I normally take, given that at the pagination stage I generally don’t have subsequent page overrides. I was just addressing the OP’s current scenario.

I think I’m in a similar situation with a full score. I decided, far too late in the day, to have a first page with the whole orchestra showing (as I always used to do; I don’t know why I didn’t in this case), so I tried to create a new page 2 so that I could shift all systems but the first onto it (and thence filling up page 1 using Manual Staff Visibility); but I haven’t succeeded. Although page 1 was overridden before my attempt at the page creation, page 2 was not; but (as in the OP’s case) nevertheless no page was added if I selected a page template. The attached snippet shows where I have got to, namely the result of adding a blank page without choosing a page template. I don’t know how to assign a blank master page directly to a non-overridden page, but in any case is that what I need to do here? I did try to ‘un-override’ page 1, but even the act of deleting some text (an unwanted extra flow number above the one shown) ‘re-overrode’ it. I have to confess that master pages and the like are not so much my Achilles heel as my Achilles whole leg, so I’d really appreciate help with this.
Insert page query.dorico (1.4 MB)

This isn’t really an answer to your question, but I want to point you towards the flow heading so you don’t have unwanted extra flow numbers cluttering things up. I only recently discovered this and it gave me great joy. You put it on the first page and then each time you change flows it shows up with the new flow title (or whatever you want to put there).

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I’m not sure I understand what you want, but the answer is usually (I have found) not to insert a page but to (create and) change the master page(s) to put the format you want on the page you want. Forgive me if I have misunderstood.
Insert page altered.dorico (1.0 MB)
My computer did not have one of the fonts you used, so I hope this has not messed things up.

Hi Derrek - many thanks for looking at this, and for taking the trouble to provide an amended file. It isn’t exactly what I was looking for - I wanted to add a second page so that all systems (except the first one) from the first page could be shifted forwards onto it, enabling me to make visible a lot of blank staves on the first page, i.e. to show the full instrumentation as advised by Gould (pp. 521-522). However, I’ve just looked at her guidelines again, and under the circumstances I think it’d be OK to stick with the original first page (timps only). But your advice is a great help to me, as the whole subject of master pages is still one I need to work at.

If I understood (see attached). Here is what I did.
Insert a frame break at second system.
Right click on that Frame Break and set Manual Staff Visibility to Reset All.
Right click on the first Frame Break on the first system and set Manual Staff Visibility to Show All.
Remove Page Override on the inserted page to remove it.

Insert page query 2.dorico (1.3 MB)

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Craig - that is perfect! Thank you so much. I shall cut out and keep your method!

Kindest regards,


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