Any idea why my stereo buss sounds better phase reversed?

I’m sending a mono vocal track to a stereo fx in paralell, then into a stereo group (submix) that feeds the stereo buss.

I disabled all of the plug-ins- and bypassed all the eq in the chain.

For some reason I get a much more full , undeniably better sound when the Stereo group/submix is phase reversed .

If I phase reverse the original track, it’s hard to say if there’s really a difference in quality.

No problem or anything as my rule of thumb w phase (or mixing in general)is -“if it sounds better- do it”

But I’m a engineer who’s new to the Cubase world, so as I’m sure a lot of you can relate, I HAVE to know WHY this is happening

I’ve read endless threads debating on mono/stereo busses, moving the mono track t a stereo track, RECORDING in stereo- and it ended up being a thread of “passionate “ people, with very strong opinions as to how and why-

I’m not interested in all that, but rather if
A) is this normal? Should I be checking/phase reversing all of my stereo group busses that are fed from a mono source?

B) is this a result of simply sending a mono track to a stereo buss? Perhaps the left and right sum together inevitably leaving the stereo buss out of phase with the mono track? ( this would be surprising to me, but I’m still curious)

C) maybe it has something to do with the stereo track and the mono track combining together and creating a phase “issue” before it hits the buss?

D) absolutely not - I’m an idiot- there has to be something I’ve got going on in my chain causing it to do that, OR I hear as good as your 99 year old great grandfather , the track sounded way better before I phase reversed it, I can’t believe I call myself an engineer, I should quit.

Either way, curiosity eats at me, stifles my creativity, until I settle on a why- then I can let it go :wink:

Any ideas?

Btw feel free to answer D- I won’t be offended

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I’m not sure I’ve understood your routing description.

Is the fx on the fx stereo buss also disabled? Only reasonable explanation is phasing. The find out why the phasing is caused is the trick. I had stuff in the past where there was delay compensation on a track that causes phasing. Very short delay times on fx. Chorus fx. Anything that can adjust te timing of the source material. Even reverb set wrong can cause phasing. What I suggest, can you make a recording. Maybe bounce the audio in and out of phase. 10sec clips. And maybe a screen crab or few. Maybe someone spots something… I would like to recreate te problem. The engineering way. Hehe

Definitely- I’ll get on that in the morning because I just have to know.

Original mono vocal track, routed to a stereo group (submix) that is also going to the stereo out of course.

The original mono track is also being sent to a stereo FX track, in parallel and that FX track is also going to the stereo group (submix)

Basically I’m using submixes, and it’s your typical mono vocal track, w a stereo send for reverb/delay.

Pretty damn sure I disabled the channel strip, eq , and all the inserts while testing this, but I’ll triple check tomorrow;)

Have you checked your monitors are in phase?

Disable one plugin at a time, check.

If no joy disable two at once may be an interaction.

Maybe you can provide some screenshots…

Another issue could be that your summing affects the frequency response of the sub mix and the reversed phase just changes the summing…

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st10ss- your a genius my friend. Your 100 percent right it NOT phase cancellation -it just affects the frequency response. The tell tale "increased low end " is what was tricking my brain into thinking it was “better” phase reversed… I just got done checking phase w my kick mics too so I was just in that mode I guess.

BUT - it WAS way more significant yesterday and the reason why is actually rather surprising to me- in fact, Im hoping one of you guys can explain this, or perhaps test it yourself if its new to you as well, assuming you own ozone.( I got a free copy of Ozone Elements and was trying out the AI features- I haven’t used the full version since 2016)

ANYWAYS, I was mixing this morning, and for a minute I had thought my guitars balance had gotten completely screwed-
After tediously rebalancing my levels, I get to a part that’s hard panned and notice that everything is going up the middle.
A while back I had used ozones “mono” button to check my mix in mono- and although I left it in mono- the plugin was bypassed.
And the little yellow insert button was also on so all my inserts were bypassed.

(On the bright side my mix is much more mono compatible after spending all that time lol)

Im a little confused as to why it stayed in mono when I bypassed the plugin seeing as how my mix is natively in stereo.

And sure enough the super intense “difference” I noticed yesterday when phase reversing- is much more noticeable in the mono state- but now Ive noticed that its just a very significant bass boost ( no weird artifacts or comb filtering) so at this point im just NOT going to flip the phase in case my ears are missing something

Any idea how this happened w Ozone???

its kinda scary , like how many features in my plugins are still affecting the audio while still in bypass- wondering if I need to restart my cpu…

here’s a screenshot of my master fader while playing audio- if you look on ozone im toggling the “mono” function at the bottom right- you can clearly see the output goes from stereo to mono even tho the plugins bypassed

on a other note since ive exposed myself here- ignore all the master bus plugins Im using :stuck_out_tongue:

I only send it off to the mastering engineer with super light compression and sometimes w softubes “tape”- the rest are just listening tools :slight_smile: