Any music players with VST3 plugin capability?

No problem. I think I’m getting the idea…

So I’m guessing a bit about the outputs, you’ll want to try a few connections to sort out what’s actually happening.

My initial guess is this…
The chip itself probably has 4 channel outputs total.

My guess is that you get 4 hardware outputs on pins 1-4…

The first 2 will go to the internal speakers in the laptop (See Red Box).
The second 2 will go to the headphone jack (See Green Box).

Snapshot

Channels 1-4 go directly to hardware.
Channels 5 - 64, you’ll have free for ‘virtual routing’.

For Inputs, it looks like you’ll only have 2 showing up top. Depending on what you plug into the mic jack, you might end up with one signal on channel 1 (mono), a duplicated mono signal (both 1 and 2 have the same signal, perhaps with phase inversion of some sort on the right channel), or a true stereo signal.

You’ll have a number of options for sending a mix to both your speakers and headphones at the same time if you like. One raw and basic example might look like this. The grey LOOPER rail connections might be a bit hard to see here, so look close in the red box. I’ve sent channels one and 2 to LOOPER OUT, and then routed LOOPER IN 1 & 2 to the headphone outputs 3 & 4.

Snapshot

Note, if you tap those IN MIX, OUT MIX buttons in ASIO Link Pro (most of the rails have one), you can also do connections and gain adjustments in a grid that pops up (the tiny knobs actually turn with the mouse).

You’ll also have options to control different monitoring mixes in Reaper and/or Bidule (as opposed to direct routing on the main asiotool.exe instance). I’ll need to study up how to do independent monitor mixes in Reaper, but I’m pretty positive it’s possible. I.E. Set up two busses on the mixing console with everything routed into both of them in parallel…hence the ability to easily swap back and forth between headphone and speaker monitoring right there in Reaper.

Since you only have one jack to plug stuff in, be aware of whatever options your device might offer for setting the base gain staging for whatever device you plug in. There might be switches for different kinds of mics, vs plugging in line level devices (a keyboard, iPod, whatever).

So, be aware that you might have quite a few options/settings at your disposal for both the inputs and outputs should you run into issues.

I usually start with the outputs by disabling Exclusive modes (so multiple clients can use the hardware all at the same time).

Snapshot

I also recommend that while doing stuff with Reaper/Bidule, disabling any ‘effects or audio enhancement’ options for your Realtek chip if it offers them. You’ll probably find some faders to gain stage the hardware for speakers/headphones/mic as well. You want the cleanest/purest, unmodified signals you can get.

On the inputs, be careful before you plug something in and power it up. Some chips have ‘protection’ built in and will handle this stuff automatically for you, and some might require you go into settings and tick off options. Cheap mics for something like a laptop will typically be quite ‘low gain’ and send a weak signal (adjust the gain for them in this control panel), while something like an MP3 Player, a music keyboard, or even some guitars/direct boxes/keyboards/etc. might send a pretty hot signal! In the latter cases, don’t forget to check (if possible, toggle between mic or line level options)…if devices send hot signals (I.E. an iPod’s output with headphone amp behind it) pull levels way down on the device before plugging them in and gradually bring it up in tiny increments until it sits at levels you want.

When I get a chance, I’ll come back with some bidule scenarios.

Yes, just spend a little time going through it all so you have an idea of what is there. Should you run into problems getting it all to work the way you want, you’ll have a ‘cognitive’ foundation of some places to go looking for corrections :slight_smile:

Thanks again for all this! Finally back from out of town, but dug into it a bit today. So far, I have routed everything as per your instructions and I`m successfully recording into Reaper from Brave, Winamp, Foobar and Dorico. Recording Bidule into Reaper as well, but only when I choose (in my case, Speakers 02 ASIOVADPRO). Not getting audio when I choose ASIO Link Pro Duplex within Bidule, unfortunately.

Currently trying to get audio from my headphones. Missing something really simple, to be sure.

Gonna keep digging and figuring this all out. In the meantime, here are some screensnaps of my progess so far:

All this is awesome already, let alone when I have my head wrapped around it all! :slightly_smiling_face:

When you choose the ASIO Link Pro (duplex) device, do you get 64 inputs and outputs showing in Bidule?

Snapshot

Try sending something to ASIO Driver Out MIX pins 3 & 4 in your main asiolinktool.exe instance. Does it come out over the headphones then?

Snapshot

Affirmative. 64 inputs and outputs.

Nope. Sending anything to ASIO Driver Out MIX pins 3 & 4.. but still no audio.

I’ll try to come up with some tests eventually.
In theory you should be getting audio if you attach something in bidule to the output pins 1 & 2. I.E. set up an audio file player bidule and send its output into a mixer bidule, and then that to output pins 1&2.

Snapshot

Interesting, you might try some of the other outputs…

Also, take a close look at the Windows Control panel for the speakers and headphones. See if there are any switches or options in there. If the laptop has any kind of special control panel app for audio check that out as well.

I suppose it’s possible that it all goes through the same two channels, and plugging something into the headphone jack simply diverts the audio signal from speakers to headphones instead?

The main reason I suspected channels 3&4 was because of the way it showed up in your ASIO4ALL screen shot several posts ago.

Another experiment might be to disable the speakers temporarily in ASIO4ALL, just leave the headphones active. See if that leads to anything coming through the headphones.

Just try stuff…

Will do! I downloaded the manual to flip through later this week.. and will go through the steps you mentioned previously as well. Thanks again for this.. much appreciated. :slight_smile:

I overlooked this before…

If there is only one port for both the mic and speakers, I’m betting there might be a ‘special’ cable for that computer. Maybe instead of the usual (ring-tip-sleeve) setup found in a normal set of headphones or a stereo mic, it has a 4 or 5 banded plug, and you’re meant to use a special breakout cable? If that’s the issue, it’s likely to be a pretty simple Y cable kind of thing that breaks out into a couple of headers with the regular ring-tip-sleeve female sockets.

(Edit)
I’ve looked it up. I don’t see a special cable listed so far, but I did find this post:
Line in audio input on a ThinkPad? : r/thinkpad

Yeah, if you want to do some serious audio on that laptop, maybe grab a USB interface. The come in all shapes, sizes, and price ranges. Go for something that comes with native ASIO drivers :slight_smile:
USB Audio Interfaces - Sweetwater

Thx for the links!

Yeah, my Saffire Pro 24 became a doorstop when I recently upgraded to Win11 (no supported drivers). I`m currently saving my pennies for an RME interace, but since it will be awhile.. I may very well have to pick up one of the interfaces you noted on Sweetwater. I think ASIO Link Pro will be perfect once I have an audio interface. Will look into all this when I get back from out of town. Thx again!

Mirax Labs vstPlayer!

Sometimes you can get it working, if you find the drivers in the driverstore of an older Windows setup, perhaps tweak the INF file a bit, and then manually install them in the newer version of windows through Windows control panels. You do have to disable a security feature or two until you get it installed and working.

You’d need your old Windows setup that it last worked with tho’, and if that’s not handy…for the time invested pushing an old installation just to get at a few files, just getting a new interface might be easier. If you’ve still got that old setup (I.E. Just swapping out the hard drive), it should be possible to get it going in Windows 11.

I.E. I’m still using some ancient Roland stuff. Their installers haven’t worked since Windows 7 or so, but I’m still using them on Windows 11.

Thx man. I appreciate all the tips!

UPDATE: Still outta town (for another week or two), but I went ahead and ordered an Audient iD24 USB-C Audio Interface for my Thinkpad P52 laptop. I think it`ll be a great interface for me (send/returns, Loopback, ADAT in/out, Wordclock out, etc). Talk soon.. cheers!

Finally getting around to all this again. Using a new interface now (Audient iD24 USB-C), and have successfully recorded several sound sources into Reaper (pics attached). Currently figuring out the Audient iD24 and its software routing and interface. Followed your instructions and everything seems to be working fine. Gonna attach a few screensnaps showing where I`m at so far..

I think I`m set to have everything audio/MIDI piping thru Bidule as you mentioned previously. Would you kindly recommend a scenario or two using Bidule as a patch bay? Thx m8!

Reaper..

For me, the main advantage of keeping a stand alone bidule instance running at all times is for the sake of MIDI processing and routing. Very few if any USB<>MIDI drivers for windows are multi-client friendly on the INPUTS side; so, combining something like bidule or bome with some virtual MIDI ports can be super helpful for anyone who wants to use multiple MIDI apps on a system at one time!

Another big plus is if you want to take advantage of AUDIO over your LAN among different computers running ASIO Link Pro.

A third big plus is the ability to take advantage of OSC networking. Bidule provides the ability to set up OSC servers and clients. It can even be a clever way to interpret things OSC into straight MIDI over virtual ports for Apps that do not have built in OSC support.

I don’t use Reaper much, and don’t know a lot about it, but I do gather that where OSC support is concerned, it’s probably the most complete DAW on the market when it comes to supporting that protocol! So, if you’re into Reaper, I advise doing a little research into what OSC is, and what it might have to offer. The basic gist of what OSC is/does? It’s basically MIDI, but over the network protocols of your OS, as opposed to ‘MIDI Drivers’. It’s pretty popular for things like…tablet apps (Android or IOS) to remote control things in the DAW. I suppose a growing number of ‘wireless MIDI’ interfaces over WAN or Bluetooth might take advantage of the protocol as well.

If you’d like a stand alone instance of Bidule ‘in the middle’ to serve as a kind of system-wide patch bay, you could do something like this:

  1. Open a Stand alone instance of Bidule…remember you’ll connect ‘inputs’ in the special bidule instance of ASIO Link Pro.

  2. Consider the high ASIO Link Pro channels in your bidule instance. As in, the outputs above those that run directly to your audio interface…

  3. Use loopback connections in the main instance of ASIO Link Pro…

  4. Bring anything you want routed through bidule first into Reaper over those higher ASIO Link Pro channels.

In my case, I always keep a stand alone bidule instance running on my Windows 11 system. I can send whatever I like directly to the hardware outputs (In my case 1-20). I can grab audio in the bidule instance from any of the 24 inputs (1 - 24).

In this case I have a mixer bidule to bring it all down to the main outputs of my interface for direct monitoring right from my speakers. Notice that I’m routing my ‘system sounds’ into channels 25 and 26, through a Limiter Plugin (I get sick of the inconsistent levels of things like Youtube in the web browser. This lets me tame that a bit).

In this case I only have a few frequently used looback rails setup (27-32), but I could easily just connect them all and have access to all 64 channels in the ASIO matrix if desired.

If I wanted to process something in this bidule instance before sending it to another app, I could simply use some of those higher channels, and bring it into other apps from their special ASIO Link Pro instances over the loopback channels.

Note, it’s pretty rare I process much audio in this stand alone bidule instance other than my ‘system sounds’ (web browsers, games, junk I just want to hear while using it). I.E. With Cubase, I get and send interface audio directly from/to the lower hardware linked ASIO Link channels (NOT routed through this bidule instance). In this case, I can still hear ‘system sounds’ and any other preview or realtime junk I’d like through bidule, but it’s routed in a way that doesn’t effect what I’m doing in Cubase/Reaper/Whatever.

I’d rather process audio directly in whatever DAW I’m using for the main mix (and sometimes I even host bidule instances in effect or instrument slots inside that DAW); however, there might be a few cases where it can come in handy to route something through a stand alone bidule instance first, and back into other apps.

The most obvious case usage would be if you want to deal with audio over your LAN, or via local RTP/TCP/IP. If you have ASIO Link Pro running on another system on your LAN, you can exchange streams between those systems in real time.

Another example: Maybe you have a DAW that has some plugins that only work internally, and can’t be loaded in 3rd party apps. I know Cubase is loaded with them (lots of nice plugins that only work in Cubase, plus a ton of channel strip stuff that’s built into the Cubase mix consoles). In cases like that it might be useful to treat a bidule instance as a kind of plug in hosting matrix hub, but remember you’d then need to bounce things in real time, as instant rendering and such might not work in such a scenario.

Windows often has an issue with USB<>MIDI devices. I.E. with my Arturia Keylab 61 mkII, the first app that grabs it gets excusive access to the mkII inputs. To get around this ‘windows’ issue, I’ll have my first stand alone instance of bidule grab the mkII inputs, and then route those to some loopMIDI virtual ports that are multi-client friendly. Now I can use the MIDI controller with multiple apps at the same time.

Down at the bottom you’ll also see some bidules called “XR” and “General MIDI Modes”. In my case the XR bidules are simple OSC MIDI bidules (A way to route MIDI over the local network or LAN). I have a Roland Fantom XR connected deeper inside that General MIDI Modes bidule, and thus any APP on my rig can play the XR through that bidule over the OSC server (slightly less latency than doing it over virtual MIDI port drivers).

I’ve also built some extra logic for the sake of Dorico that gets sent over virtual port C.

All it does is snoop some of the Universal Mackie Control stuff the mkII sends and turn it into simpler events that I can have dorico ‘learn’ to do some custom remote control of that app. The MPK Transport bidule is there in case I want to linkup the mkII transport controls to a bidule transport.

Thanks for all this! Much appreciated!

Yeah, I`m going to now look into OSC (I know nothing about it), to see how/where it could fit into my setup. Especially interested in OSC into straight MIDI over virtual ports, as you previously mentioned.

Tried loopMIDI, to no avail. Prob not Win11 compatible. May look into buying BOME MIDI Translator Pro (Win11).

Unfortunately, my Audient iD24 has no MIDI DINs. Any recommendations for a MIDI Hub/Router unit? The BomeBox looks interesting..

Should I use all 64 channels with ASIO LP, or stick to 32? I ask because I`ve read that 64 channels will tax my CPU.

Thx!

loopMIDI works fine for me with Windows 11.

Bidule can do many if not all of the same things Bome Translator can do. Perhaps it’s not as intuitive/easy up front, but it’s there. Still you might grab the demos and have a try. They also have a free nag-ware version called Bome Translator Classic.

I haven’t had any issues with keeping 64 channels active in ASIO Link Pro. I typically don’t connect them to anything unless I’m using them. My standard setup keeps only 6 to 8 loopback channels connected above the standard hardware associated channels for convenience sake. It’s rare I’ve ever needed more than that active and pumping signals at once. Best way to find out is try it on your own system and compare.

I haven’t tried a bomebox. So far I haven’t needed anything like that, as my MIDI controllers have always had some DIN IN/OUT support, and the pair of delta 1010 cards each provide a set of DIN inputs and outputs. I’ve still got an old Anatek SMP7 on standby from the old Atari ST/Falcon days as well (Merges DIN MIDI ports, and can deal with a variety of SMPTE and MIDI devices).