Anyone Using the Intel Core Ultra 9 285K with Cubase 14?

[rickpaul]

@Pete_Cockcroft

If buying an Asus motherboard, the obvious choice would be to buy an Asus version Video Card.

I tend to agree with @mducharme that the brand of video card’s being consistent with the brand of motherboard shouldn’t really matter. Quality of the card will, of course. Somewhat coincidentally, my last two video cards have been ASUS-branded, but I know MSI is highly respected, too. I do tend to find ASUS to be a company I can trust on the quality front, and one that often comes in at an at least reasonable price point for my needs. I also happen to have 2 ASUS monitors, and it was a combination of features and price point that made me go that way. Specifically, I needed the DVI connectors due to the older video cards I had, then, when my son gave me a hand-me-down when he upgraded his gaming card, I was also glad the same monitors had HDMI since the newer card only had one DVI. The new card I’m getting has no DVI and only one HDMI, plus three DisplayPort, but I learned you can just get a DisplayPort to HDMI cable (or adapter) to deal with my monitors’ lack of DisplayPort.

@Pete_Cockcroft

I guess nobody overclocks anymore? In which case, it doesn’t matter.

I don’t, and never have, though both the motherboard and video card I’m getting have features for that (the video card even has an “OC Edition” tag on it). But I also gather that components aimed at overclocking tend to be of higher quality than the similar models that aren’t.

@Pete_Cockcroft

If you are happy with Motu, and just use the audio outs - then the Motu M4 is a great little unit.

Most of the time, I use the MIDI input, headphone outputs (mostly one, but both if I’m recording another singer), mic/line inputs, and a pair of outputs for my monitors on the 828x. There have been a few times where I’ve connected additional audio inputs, for example for digitizing cassettes, and I think even a few times where I used both additional inputs and outputs (maybe for a loopback connection to recording something to an audio track?). I don’t recall if I’ve used the lightpipe (ADAT) inputs to date, but I do still have a bunch of ADAT tapes (and an old blackface ADAT) I’d eventually hoped to dump to the computer.

FWIW, if you have any curiosity on the 828x, here is its page:

- Features

It’s decidedly a bit of overkill on the I/O side for what I mostly do, but, if it can still work reliably on my new system, there is no reason for me to change (and tight finances will more than second that “status quo” thing).

I’ve generally been happy with it running it over Thunderbolt 2. However, the one time I was running it over USB2 for an extended period (when I didn’t realize my motherboard’s CMOS battery had died and couldn’t initially figure out how to get Thunderbolt working again in BIOS), I found it was having issues staying connected with Cubase (I think it was Cubase 13 at the time). Thus, my nervousness about needing to use the USB2 connection for the 828x on the new system. But perhaps there was some issue on my current system that contributed to the cutting out. (By the time I needed to do that, my system was already 9 or 10 years old.)

I just looked up the MOTU M4, and it wouldn’t work for me due to only having one headphone output. (While that would be find most of the time, there are occasionally times where I need to record another singer and so need two headphone outputs and where just using a splitter wouldn’t suffice.)

@Pete_Cockcroft

Don’t know much about the 828, but the headphone level at 400ohm on the Ultra and M4 is a bit quiet. So a good headphone amp is needed. You’ll need a power-supply for the 828, to run off USB.

I’ve never had any issue with headphone level on the 828x. The 828x doesn’t attempt to run off USB power – it’s got a built-in power supply that gets plugged into a normal power outlet.

MOTU recently introduced their 848, which upgrades the 828x in many ways, including supporting Thunderbolt 4. But it is about $1.6k, so way beyond what I can afford if I need to replace the 828x. I could decidedly go with something less feature-laden than my 828x as long as it at least has the MIDI input (my 88-key controller is too far away from my system to use it over USB – only use that for piano parts as I have a USB-connected MIDI controller on my desk), mic/line inputs, a maybe 4x4 on the audio in/out side.

[Pete_Cockcroft]

@Reco29

@Pete_Cockcroft Since this is off topic let me just drop three words: .Acoustic room treatment?

Well it’s on topic ‘cos he’s mastering albums on a Logitech 5.1 system! I would hope my comments are inspirational in that regard.

I appreciate your experience and constructive advice. Good question in fact.

Personally, I don’t need much room treatment. I previously had a very dead room, and speakers 5ft apart, 6ft away. But I like the more open feel of my virtually untreated room. There are no reflections which interfere with anything, and with the Bryston DAC, all the info appears behind the speakers in a vast array of space. There is an 8ft section of bare wall behind my working/listening position, and that is covered with a light throw-over.

I’m lucky in that this setup actually exposes discrepancies, rather than introducing a false ‘reading’ of events.

I found Allan Holdsworth’s guitar has certain unsavoury mid-peaks on some of his recordings played in this room, but my own mid-based guitar sound sits nicely. This to me is a good indication that the room will tell me when I push the mid-envelope too far (like Allan often did) - and my ethos is to simply hear nice notes and textures all working together in a 3D image. I’m not looking to rearrange my foundations with bass, drill holes in the wall with midrange, or shatter glass with treble. I leave that to the EDM boys.

I do have full-length curtains I can use to the left, which cover the whole wall, and they do lessen Allan’s mid-range peaks. Half-pulled seems perfect. For the future I may use a large throw-over behind the speakers, but it’s not crying out for it. It would just be something nicer to look at than the blank wall, but there’s nothing happening there above 200hz.

The human brain is a remarkable thing. The Tannoys are also quite remarkable. Once you sit and listen head-on, the mind focuses and rejects spurious stuff, until you are quickly drawn right into this unbelievable soundscape. If it were any other way I’d be the first to admit it, but the room and the angles seem to work very well. Tannoy point-source is it’s own animal. I’m certainly not experiencing direct reflections at any discernible amplitude.

To escape from the fatiguing prison of solely near-field monitoring was liberating for me. Once I bought a 34” wide-screen and the Tannoys, then near-field was history. Best thing I ever did. My first revelation with electric guitar was hearing the sound come from somewhere else, other than right in my lap, or face.

My recordings are mastered here, and to me, sound absolutely wonderful - open and balanced. But I’m fully aware that others may well have DSP, multiple subs, dipole woofers, or open-baffles, or whatever - and will no doubt impose their sonic preferences on my careful work. My job is to compile my ‘info’ in a highly musical way, where you can hear all the players, and their minute detail, as they occupy their own ambient space in an image. Often with secondary ambience elsewhere in the image, so note-ends dance around delightfully.

The second I can’t realise that, then yes - I would instantly reach for the soft throws and nail them up! But the throw behind, the carpet, and the side curtain goes a long way. I did add a small bass trap in the left corner recently, so I do appreciate these things. But I’ve been very lucky in how this has worked out. I have now extended that bass trap to cover the full area behind the speakers at floor-level, as there’s a lot of low-end energy flying around there.

If Joe Bloggs wants to play my stuff with sub-woofer mega-bass, and bags of treble, then it’s up to them, but my responsibility is my art and relaying my given-gift and vision fully to others - not teaching them how to listen flat like I do.

[Pete_Cockcroft]

I have a 30ft Midi cable from my 88-key to my Ultralight mk3. No issues there.

Yes, the MSI stuff is very good, and yeah of course you can get adaptors to suit your multiple screens.

I did use a Beyer A20 headphone amp, which has two good outputs for high-impedance headphones. I’d certainly recommend it over the current crop of Chinese stuff.

[rickpaul]

Back to the more direct topic of the thread, one observation from my build-in-progress to make: Don’t trust PCPartPicker for configuring memory compatible with a motherboard. It turned out the one I chose from its supposedly compatible list is not on the CVL (Compatible Vendor List, I think?) for my motherboard. I don’t know yet if that is the cause of the problem I’m currently having on booting up, or if the motherboard has a defective DIMM slot for the slot where the first DIMM gets installed. However, I did find the memory modules I purchased (based on PCPartPicker’s recommendation) do work if in the second slot, with nothing in the first slot, but not in the first slot, whether as a single module or paired with one in the second slot.

I’ve got a module that is on the motherboard’s CVL on order (arriving today), and I’ll be returning the ones I initially ordered to Amazon. HOPEFULLY, that will make the difference. If not, then it will be time to return the motherboard due to a defective DIMM slot. That would be a MAJOR pain since I’d have to uninstall all the components, including dealing with removing and reapplying thermal paste for the CPU cooler.

Oh, and one bonus tip: I’d now avoid ordering CPUs from Amazon. I ordered the Core Ultra 9 285k 5.7 GHz, and the packaging on the chip I received reflected that. However, the actual chip inside the package was a Pentium G850 2.9 GHz. I was wondering why the size was so different from the CPU slot size!

At this point, after a few screwups (both Amazon’s and mine), as well as the general pain of wading through inadequate documentation, searching for more information (including helpful videos), I have to revise my original, “ask me in 2-3 weeks,” to probably more like, “ask me in 3-5 weeks.” (I’d originally estimated the actual PC build would take 1-2 days, and the migration of software, peripherals, drivers, and data would take at least a week. Today will be Day 5 on the build front, at least once the replacement memory arrives.)

[Pete_Cockcroft]

I always used Hyper-X DDR4 on my Asus boards. No reason to suspect DDR5 would be any different.

Do consult your motherboard literature. You have memory slots 0-3. Sometimes 1 and 3 are used for only a pair of Dimms, and 0 and 2 are for when you expand?

Good luck with it. You’ll soon be sorted once you’ve got all the bits.

[rickpaul]

@Pete_Cockcroft

I always used Hyper-X DDR4 on my Asus boards. No reason to suspect DDR5 would be any different.

Do consult your motherboard literature. You have memory slots 0-3. Sometimes 1 and 3 are used for only a pair of Dimms, and 0 and 2 are for when you expand?

I’d originally had Corsair Vengeance, and, quite honestly, despite its not being on the CVL for the motherboard, I’m pretty sure it would have been okay. However, “in an abundance of safety”, I replaced it with Corsair Dominator Titanium, which was one of the few models from brands I trust (Kingston being another) that I could actually find available “now” at the places I tried. It came with an uplift in price, but also an uplift in speed (6600 vs. 6400). It also makes fancy colors, but that is more of an annoyance since it will be hidden within my black case anyway.

Unfortunately, it didn’t resolve the problem, so my conclusion is that the primary memory slot (i.e. the one you’re supposed to put the first memory module in be it for a single DIMM configuration or a dual, or higher DIMM configuration) on the motherboard is defective. (I could get to BIOS with any of the memory modules in the second slot.) So, the motherboard is going to be returned, and I’ll pick up another (same model) locally tomorrow to start again.

Most of the uninstall wasn’t too bad, but I do HATE the thermal paste removal, especially from the CPU (CPU cooler was easier). And the reinstall should go more quickly now that I’ve had a “dress rehearsal”.

[Pete_Cockcroft]

What I meant was that slots 2 and 4 pictured, have to be populated for slots 1 and 3 to work. A single module in slot 1 will not be seen. A single in slot 2 will.

So A2 and B2 are your slots to use.

Best to check with you I thought. Stranger things have happened…

[rickpaul]

@Pete_Cockcroft

So A2 and B2 are your slots to use.

Yes, these were the ones I was using:

The problem is A2 (the one you’re supposed to use first, for example if a 1-DIMM configuration) was (apparently) defective. I initially started with the middle configuration since that is where I intended to land, but the bootup failed at the DRAM test (yellow Q-LED lit on the motherboard). For troubleshooting purposes, I then tried removing the module in B2, to yield a 1-DIMM configuration as on the left in the Quick Start Guide illustration. Same result. Then I tried moving the module I’d originally had in B2 to A2 (still a single DIMM config). Same result.

Then, thanks to a video I found online for troubleshooting this, I tried a single-DIMM configuration with the module in B2. No more memory failure, and I could boot to BIOS. I tried the same with the other module, and again I could boot to BIOS. That told me the memory was fine, but odds were slot A2 was defective.

The next thing I tried (with a module in B2 to get through this part) was updating the BIOS to current, for example in case some BIOS updates may have supported newer memory modules. Then I repeated the testing, with the same results as before.

FWIW, I’d taken a couple of photos of the memory slots, and there was something I noticed visually that was different in the A2 slot. Here is an overview of the slots with the area in question circled in red:

And here is a closeup on the area in question:

It’s not clear enough for me to see what specifically it is, just that it’s different. My initial thought was maybe dust, but I tried a camera-grade brush and bulb blower, and neither made a difference. But perhaps whatever this is reflects some kind of damage, for example in the specific connection at that position.

Finally, after finding that the specific memory model numbers I was using, were not in the CVL for the motherboard (despite their being listed as compatible in PCPartPicker), I returned the initial modules and purchased ones that were listed in the CVL, repeating my testing. Unfortunately, with the same results. Thus, my conclusion that slot A2 is defective.

Bottom line for now is I’ve now uninstalled everything (other than the power supply, and I’ll be returning the motherboard today to get a refund and picking up another locally so that I can rebuild later today and, hopefully, get back in business. I’ve already verified the memory I have now works. Hopefully the A2 and B2 memory slots, and all the other components, on the replacement work.

[mducharme]

A bent CPU socket pin can also cause this failure pattern. Check the pins in the top right especially. With your phone zoomed in or something similar.

it might not make much difference regarding your course of action because those tiny pins with modern sockets are notoriously difficult to unbend without making the problem worse.

[rickpaul]

@mducharme

A bent CPU socket pin can also cause this failure pattern. Check the pins in the top right especially. With your phone zoomed in or something similar.

Thanks for the tip. I’ve already got the return of the first motherboard authorized (and it’s packed up to ship today). Hopefully the replacement will not have the problem, but I’ll keep this in mind in case…

[KT66]

@mducharme

A bent CPU socket pin can also cause this failure pattern

This was the cause of an apparent memory slot problem on the mobo I bought recently. I RMA’d the board and reported what I thought was the issue and Asus came back to me advising that there were a few bent pins in the CPU socket.

[mducharme]

I know this because even though I was being extra careful with everything (was terrified of making a mistake), I still somehow managed to bend one of the CPU socket pins in the top right of the socket and had to get a replacement. This was just a couple months ago. Same failure - RAM light came on, but all the sticks worked in the socket furthest from the CPU.

The pins have gotten to be so small and thin that they are very easy to bend if you do even the slightest thing wrong - I might have done something innocuous like gently moved the CPU sideways or something by very lightly touching the edge with my fingernail to get it to sit.

[KT66]

To be fair, the pins may have been bent during manufacture rather than something you did. Asus replaced my board free of charge and took responsibility for it.

[mducharme]

Yes, that’s true - when I got the replacement from Amazon (they replaced it no problem), I checked the replacement carefully for any bent pins with my phone camera on high zoom before I put the CPU in there, in case the previous board came with that one pin slightly bent somehow. I wanted to make sure the new one was in perfect condition before going through the trouble of installing the CPU, pasting it, etc.

It is probably much more likely than a problem with the RAM slot, because any slot issues should be found during the QC/QA process before the board gets shipped out, and it is much easier to damage the CPU pins than it would be to damage the RAM slot.

[rickpaul]

Well, the good news is that the replacement motherboard (same model as before, but from Micro Center instead of Amazon) worked! I was a little nervous on first bootup because the yellow light for the memory check actually does stay on a little while (I think this relates to memory checks on DDR5 taking longer than on DDR4), but it went off and got to the white light that was indicative of also being able to get to BIOS, so I shut down, put the system back together, attached a monitor, keyboard, and mouse, and voila! Now to redo the BIOS updates I’d done with the other motherboard a couple days ago (this one even has an older BIOS than that one did, but the other’s wasn’t even listed on the ASUS site, so maybe they decided it wasn’t a good one or something).

I also looked at the memory slots right away to make sure there wasn’t the same sort of thing I saw in the previous motherboard (see the marked-up photos in my reply to Pete). It looked clean this time, so I’m really thinking whatever that visible difference was may have been a clue to the slot’s failure.

My hope for the rest of the night (after dinner and practicing) is to get the BIOS fully updated then install Windows. I’ll still have a bunch to do on my current system (e.g. relating to authorizations before I can do a lot more) as I want to make sure the hardware changes I’ll be making (moving some components to the new system) don’t mess up authorizations on the new system. (A year or so back I found out the hard way that iLok authorizations to a system failed when you change video cards. While all the developers eventually got me fixed with new authorizations, some had to be reminded a few times and/or just took a long time.)

[mducharme]

That’s why I authorize everything to an iLok dongle. Makes things much easier.

[rickpaul]

My dongle is V1, and most software I use doesn’t support that anymore. Had I known about the graphics card thing, I’d have moved the authorizations to the cloud before upgrading first, then moved them back down to the system afterward (which is what I’ll do this time). I also had an issue with Cubase when my system hard disk failed at one point and I replaced it with an SSD. Steinberg made it easy, though, as you could remove an authorization without having access to the system. And, of course, not everything is iLok, either – e.g. NI, Arturia, Waves, IK, and various others all use their own methods, none of which use hardware dongles (though Waves can use a USB stick). Bottom line for me is it’s been 11 years since I built my last computer, and I’d planned it pretty carefully last time. Trying to do something similar this time, though it’s tougher with even more software and vendors (not only DAW, but the vast majority is).

[mducharme]

@rickpaul

I’d have moved the authorizations to the cloud before upgrading first, then moved them back down to the system afterward (which is what I’ll do this time).

Part of the problem is that in my experience, most iLok products that support computer authentication for iLok specifically do not support iLok Cloud. When I look at my iLok products, they are about half and half products that allow either Cloud or iLok 2+ dongle (no computer authorization), or products that allow either computer authorization or iLok 2+ dongle but not iLok Cloud.

[rickpaul]

@mducharme

Part of the problem is that in my experience, most iLok products that support computer authentication for iLok specifically do not support iLok Cloud.

It’s not about using iLok Cloud to authorize on any ongoing basis, but rather about moving the authorizations there from the old system temporarily, then moving them from the cloud to the new system (once all the relevant hardware is on the new system to ensure no rude surprises from a configuration change changing how the authorization software, iLok in this case, sees the system). In the case of iLok, I know it at least is affected by a change of graphics card (not likely to be an issue on my new system as I’ve already got the graphics card working in Windows 11), but I don’t know if there are other configuration aspects that may also affect it, and I’ll at least be adding two SATA SSDs, a hard disk, and a Blu-ray drive from my current system. I know Waves uses the networking interface (possibly among other things?) as I had a problem with them previously when I disabled the wi-fi on my current system and switched to ethernet.

I have at least looked at the recommended procedures for moving various key groups of software from one system to another. I just haven’t done any of the deauthorizations yet because I wanted to make sure the new system is running solidly before that since I want to be able to have access to all my basic stuff, just in case, until it’s time to go into full migration mode (which I figure could be on the order of a week of interruption on the DAW side due to the huge number of plugins I have and use).

Today was focused on getting the hardware working, updating BIOS, installing Windows 11, and doing a few basic Windows 11 customizations (like turning of Widgets and some of the other bloatware-type features). I’ll start focusing on the migration of software and data tomorrow, starting with doing the deauthorizations I’ve already made notes on, then trying to be check on any I haven’t figured out as yet, probably in parallel with backing up data to migrate, ahead of starting on the physical hardware moves.

[rickpaul]

@rickpaul

It’s not about using iLok Cloud to authorize on any ongoing basis, but rather about moving the authorizations there from the old system temporarily, then moving them from the cloud to the new system

Just to clarify, I was inaccurate with my mention of the iLok cloud. Rather, it is deactivating the licenses on the old computer (so the licenses are in your account, but not activated anywhere), then activating them later on the new one. And it was a single operation on the deactivation end (probably on the activation end as well, but that is for later) – select all the licenses activated to the system (as opposed to a dongle or the iLok cloud – I noticed Univeral Audio Spark uses the cloud, whereas their permanent licenses use the system), then deactivate – it was extremely quick to do that with my 64 licenses (mostly PSP Audioware plugins as I have all theirs).

I’m just starting on this stage at the moment, but Waves was also similarly painless – select all the licenses in Waves Central and deactivate. On the other hand for IK, I had to individually unauthorize each product – it was quick enough for each, but it still meant doing something like 10 or 12 unauthorizations.