Hi everybody,
some producers use both, Melodyne Studio 5 and Revoice Pro 5, in the same project.
If you use both, what is your workflow/sequence, and: are you using ARA2 integration with Cubase?
Yes I use these in ARA for BVs. Iāve done it both ways with various permutations but I have settled on doing RvP first. Hereās the details 
So, after comping up my BVs (using the Comp tool) I bounce them to suitably manageable sized chunks, i.e. Verse1, Chorus, etc. Using ARA RvP I conform the timing of the BVs to the lead vocal (bounced to the same size chunk), then I bounce these straight away and remove RvP. My RvP process is pretty quick, I go with either the default loose or the default tight depending on the vibe. I donāt tweak manually in RvP because I donāt get on with the interface so itās all automatic and I just bounce as quick as possible.
Next I use Melodyne to correct the pitching but I also correct any remaining timing issues as well. RvP is much faster of course, but it can sometimes get endings wrong and also doesnāt always get tricky bits in the middle either. Track Mode is very useful for this because I also temporarily apply Melodyne ARA to the lead vocal and then I can compare the BVs with the lead for timing and pitch (sometimes I adjust the pitch for better cohesion). Finally I bounce the Melodyne BVs, remove Melodyne from the lead vocal but leave the ARA on the original BV events (because it doesnāt harm anything really).
There are a few ārulesā I have developed along the way and some more info on my working process:
Firstly on my system I find that ARA RvP usually runs once perfectly well but after that itās unreliable. So I do the above one chunk at a time and restart Cubase between. In practice this isnāt too bad because it takes a long time to do a stack of 12 vocals so itās a natural break.
Secondly when bouncing the chunks I add at least a bar of silence at the start and the end. This helps RvP with the starts and ends of the section, and helps me as well when Iām stretching in Melodyne (like long held notes at the end of phrases).
To bounce and keep the ARAād events I use a Macro: Bounce, replace, copy, undo, paste, move to origin. Bouncing as a Broadcast Wav file so it knows where locate to.
I speed up all of this process by using key commands and Macros, particularly in Melodyne. Although I have found that with ARA I canāt define my own personal key commands, doesnāt work for some reason which I have not investigated fully. So default key commands only.
I send BVs to a group channels BVGrp and BVsGrp plus lead vox to VoxGrp, so I can quickly solo the BVs with and without the lead and with and without the rest of the instruments during the whole process.
I rename all my new audio events as I bounce so that I can easily see whatās what. For example, add suffix C for comp, add suffix RvP for RevoicePro, add suffix M for Melodyne, etc. Otherwise it would be impossible to tell between them all!
I have found that when pitching down more than a tone or so in Melodyne then the audio becomes muffled. So I Iām seriously restructuring the BVs (not often) then for large pitch changes Iāll actually use VariAudio after Melodyne for those troublesome notes. Bouncing again of course.
Finally, I use Melodyne over VariAudio because itās just as fast but I think it produces smoother note transitions.
Long post, it got longer as I was typing 
Useful I hope.
Mike.
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Thanks a lot, Mike. Thatās a great and helpful summary, and I appreciate the time you invested in this.
If itās not too much effort, can you please also paste a screenshot of your macro, as I am not very experienced with that. Thank you in advance.
Regarding your custom key commands issue, Goggle answers me this:
āCustom key commands often fail to work in Cubase when using Melodyne ARA due to keyboard focus conflicts between the DAW and the plugin window. When the Melodyne editor is active, it frequently āstealsā the keyboard focus, preventing Cubase from recognizing its own shortcuts.ā
If you want the full hints, I used this query: āCubase melodyne why do custom key commands not work when using ARA?ā
Thank you for your summary and your time you invested in writing this.
IĀ“m in the same situation.
Revoice Pro is an amazing software. Oh sry: Revoice pro could be an amazing software.
But the ARA problems are destroying all.
What you think about the pitchcorrection and the audio alignment tools inside Cubase in comparison to the quality of RVP / Melodyne?
Any experience if the other synchroarts products have the same ARA problems?
Hi,
Glad to be of help. I find itās excellent to swap ideas and learn new ways of using things!!! Iām not an expert but Iāve found a way to get things done that suits me.
For the macro command I used CN Remote Panel - For Windows which is written by @Phil_Pendlebury, here in the forum. This tool runs separately from Cubase and it can be programmed to send key commands to Cubase. This particular macro canāt be done inside Cubase because you canāt add Ctrl-Z to a macro (donāt see why, but thatās how it is!). It performs the bounce and replace then it copies the new file, then undoes the action to restore the original events then pastes the new bounce then moves the newly pasted event to itās timecode position (because paste puts it at the play cursor position which may or may not be where it is supposed to be). I can provide more info if you want to download this useful tool. The same thing could be done with AutoHotKey, which I believe is the API which is used by the aforementioned tool anyway. Not an expert in AutoHotKeyā¦
Thanks for the AI info, yeah, itāll be key strokes going off elsewhere. Iād like to assign the āundo all changesā command but itās never seemed to work, but as I said Iāve not really tried that hard
Mike.
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RevoicePro works very well for me when aligning vocals. I bought the full version (rather than VocAlign) because I thought I might be able to use the tuning feature as well (to save time) but it doesnāt work anywhere near as well as using Melodyne or VariAudio so I simply use it for aligning now. Itās quick!
Audio alignment - my primary goal is to get it done as automatically as possible. Iāve rarely managed to get the Cubase inbuilt function to work accurately enough so I just use RevoicePro because I know itāll work 99% and I know when it wonāt work.
Pitch correction - Iām sure thereās many discussions on this My opinion is that Melodyne has the nicest sound and is better at tricky note transitions. VariAudio has an excellent user interface whereas I canāt get on with RevoicePro so I donāt use it, and Melodyne is pretty clunky to me but Iāve got the hang of it. I have a process in Melodyne where I 100% tune all notes right at the start and then go and correct any that are wrong and smooth over the transitions to make it natural. Iāll take the time to tweak if itās a lead vocal. As said earlier though Melodyne sometimes doesnāt do as well with large pitch corrections, e.g. 4 semitones, itāll sound weird and/or muffled. So for large adjustments I use VariAudio just for those notes and comp them in. The note will still be a bit strange but a lot less strange than Melodyne (and Iāll only be adjusting this much for BVs not lead vocals so theyāre buried in the mix!).
ARA - TBH I was excited when it was introduced because I was using Melodyne as a plugin and ātransferringā the audio, which I found was a right pain. ARA is better for me than using the Melodyne app or the RevoicePro app because I can work entirely in Cubase and therefore audition my adjustments in the mix as and when, and/or with insert FX, other tracks side-by-side like drums, click, etc. Very flexible really. It is disappointing that ARA is plagued by issues though and I really hope that one day itāll be rock solid. All of the ARA shortcomings have workarounds but it doesnāt make it easy or flexible to use.
ARA RevoicePro - it certainly has improved. In fact, I probably need to check what happens when I use it multiple times in the same session because I havenāt done that recently. I recall that when I first started using it a couple of years ago it was 50% reliable even in a new session but updates on both sides (Cubase and SynchroArts) have made that 100% reliable now. So itās entirely possible that itās even more robust now.
Long post again These are all my opinions of course
Mike.
Thanks for the uber-helpful post, @GargoyleStudio !
Can you shed some more light on your RVP-Cubase process please?
- Iām wondering when you specifically shut down/restart Cubase: immediately after sending audio into RVP via Cubase ARA? Or instead, after working on the audio in RVP, then bringing it back to Cubase?
- After youāve brought the audio back into Cubase, do you a) bounce it?, b) put it in a new Track Version (Iāve read somewhere that Cubase Track Versions and RVP ARA donāt play well together)? Other?
Thank you!
Hi there,
Iām using RvP for BVs to tighten the timing against the lead vocal. Hope this lot helps, hereās all my steps:
- Section - I approach this section by section, so I select a section to do, e.g. Chorus1
- Comp - Iāll comp my BVs for Chorus1 using the Comp tool with slip editing to get the rough timing and make good crossfades (I rely entirely on Auto Crossfades unless I canāt get rid of the transition blip)
- New Track Version - once Iām happy with the comp then I Duplicate the Track Version and name it āBounceā for the next step
- Bounce - In the new track version I bounce down with 1 bar of space either side (using the range tool) and add āCā to the end of the filenames (to indicate Comp)
- Lead Vocal RvP Guide - I will already have processed the whole lead vocal (Comped, Melodyneād, bounced etc.) and hopefully itās still in sections so Iāll add RvP ARA to the appropriate section, e.g. Chorus1
- BV RvP Dubs - Then I add RvP ARA to the comped BVs in that section
- RvP Settings - The RvP ARA window will open up here and once Iāve added all the right events and selected the type of process, in my case Loose or Tight timing only, then Iāll open RvP itself
- Focus - The RvP window pops up and I switch back to Cubase
- Select Guide - I select the Lead Vocal and pull in the Guide
- Select Dubs - Then I select all the BVs and pull them in as Dubs
- RvP Process - I observe the progress wheel in RvP and when itās complete Iāll audition the Lead with BVs just to check itās all OK. This is the best bit because I donāt have to do anything just sit back and wait for a short while
- Warp - Very occasionally I have to use the Warp tool in RvP to correct something but I try to avoid this because I donāt really get on with the RvP interface (in other words I donāt use it enough to be familiar with it!!)
- Bounce - Next I then bounce down the BVs and add āRvPā at the end of the filenames (for reference). But for the bounce I use my āspecialā macro which places the bounce under the events rather than replacing them, so I still have the Comp version there as well
- Remove ARA - I then close down RvP (using the close button and I donāt save the sesion), remove all the RvP ARA extensions (at which point the RvP ARA window in Cubase disappears, and that way I know Iāve removed all the extensions!) and save the project (as a new version, I always save as new versions so I can always get back if I mess up!)
Thatās about it really. So in the end I have a track version with the raw comped events and a new track version with the bounced comp and the bounced RvP version. But I have removed all of the RvP ARA extensions. After RvP then Iām into Melodyne for each BV. If Iām moving on to another BV section with RvP then I will close Cubase and restart it with the new project.
Iād be interested about other peopleās processes for this type of thing.
Mike.
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Thanks so much, @GargoyleStudio ! That is an amazing summary 
. Iāll give your method a try to see if it saves time.
Iām still tracking vocals in my current project, and Iāll post my RVP sequence in detail here at that stage. For now, just summarizing, I mainly use drag and drop because of reliably recurrent fatal problems I had with RVP ARA. I drag back to a new track in Cubase when Iām done in RVP.
Thanks again!
PS: Iād love to see your macro for bounce to a new track/donāt replace, if you ever have a moment 
!
Yeah, be good to see how the drag drop works. Iāve never used it. The reason I use ARA is because I can audition everything in the mix. Can you do this with the drag/drop method? I sidestep the ARA issues of course - the big noise blips at the edges of the events is the main one.
Quoting myself here just check if you saw this in one of my previous posts? I can elaborate for sure but Iād recommend you check out the tool for yourself first because itās not part of Cubase - learning curve, working practices etc.
Mike.
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I did miss/ forget youād written that, thanks!
No youtube instructions, discussion I could find about that app to purchase. @Phil_Pendlebury , might there be anything out there like that?
I tend to tune some tracks with VariAudio (āVAā), and others in the same vocal stack (LV plus BVs) with RVP because I have a very subjective sense they add different-sounding tuning artifacts, all this to try to, as much as possible, keep the finished stack sounding as clean as I can.
I canāt emphasize enough this is just a very subjective feeling, and may not be reality- based at all.
As far as tuning, I sometimes get the feeling that the algorithm might be a little cleaner- sounding in RVP compared to VA, but I dont think Iāve come to a definite conclusion about that one way or another.
When you said RVP doesnāt work nearly as well as VA, were you referencing the tuning algorithm, or maybe the workflow, or ā¦ ?
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Iāve convinced myself that dragging a drum/rhythm and piano track into RVP so I can audition everything in the mix isnāt really that much work (hmm, now that I think of it, I could also render the whole project less the vocals in question as a complete backing track to drag into RVP) - but alas, no, it is not as easy to do that as in ARA (when it works well).
Someone mentioned in one of the earlier threads about RVP creating GB of temporary files on their system, resulting in crashes, I wonder if that is related to crashes on my system also. I donāt know where to look for those though. IIRC he was using RVP 4.x, so maybe that problem has been fixed in the RVP 5.x that Iām using.
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ARA in Cubase had that problem in former times. I never really understood whether itās solved in todayās versions. There must be older articles on that on this forum.
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Hi there,
I havenāt got around to doing a proper YouTube video yet, (it is on my todo list). But I did mention elsewhere, the forum link is in my signature, but here it is again anyway:
Also here is the project website which includes the manual:
And here is the GumRoad link, already posted as well:
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