Articulation rules

[dspreadbury]

@Kim Bastin

And I presume that you will never accidentally get an accent (meaning either type of wedge accent) on any but the first of a series of tied notes.

Absolutely correct.

[fratveno]

I hope I’m misunderstanding this correctly… So when notes are tied for a reason, e.g. to mark exactly where a bow change or accent (such as incr. bow pressure) is to occur, then the ties must be faked…?

[Knut_Nergaard]

@fratveno

I hope I’m misunderstanding this correctly… So when notes are tied for a reason, e.g. to mark exactly where a bow change or accent (such as incr. bow pressure) is to occur, then the ties must be faked…?

Neither bow changes, nor incremental bow pressure is considered articulations in Dorico, so you shouldn’t have to fake a tie for any of these. Daniel explained the articulation concept as it applies to Dorico in this thread: user defined articulation - Dorico - Steinberg Forums

@Daniel at Sternberg

In Dorico, an articulation is one of only eight specific things (staccato, staccatissimo, accent, tenuto, staccato-tenuto, marcato, stress, unstress). If you need different playback for staccato for the same instrument under different circumstances, off the top of my head I’m not sure exactly how that will be achieved. You cannot define custom articulations at all, because we define articulations in a very narrow way. This allows us to handle the positioning of articulations versus slurs, tuplets, and so on, in a clever way.

[fratveno]

in a current project, the composer has used normal accents (>) on several notes within a tie chain, so I assume I would have to make some look-alikes (text?) in order to place them according to the composer’s wish

[Knut_Nergaard]

@fratveno

in a current project, the composer has used normal accents (>) on several notes within a tie chain, so I assume I would have to make some look-alikes (text?) in order to place them according to the composer’s wish

Or you could ask the composer what he meant, and persuade him to alter the notation. If he’s available to do it, that is. Otherwise, I would use a slur and tweak it to look like a tie.

[Wizzarts]

tied notes with an accent on several notes is not so un-common as people might think. Especially wind instruments would add some breath (sort of attack) to create such an emphasis. I have seen this too often to call it a minor effect.

Another quite common thing is to connect two notes of the same pitch with a slur rather than with a tie. ie. in the original polka music (Boehmen-Maehren) the 2nd voice has to support the 1st voice in a slurred passage which will be played with sort of “bady” decrescendos to separate those notes rather than adding a gap.

Another question:
A tenuto plus staccato over a single note means “portato” (very soft attack/full duration) - when a group of notes should be played portato all notes get a staccato with a slur of them all.

How will a abreviation be realized, let’s say 2 minims with 1 stroke tied together over a barline?

The common notation is to connect both minims (with one abr. stroke) with a tie. Both have 4 staccato points and are grouped by a slur.

Will Dorico do this?

[fratveno]

@Knut Nergaard

Or you could ask the composer what he meant, and persuade him to alter the notation. If he’s available to do it, that is. Otherwise, I would use a slur and tweak it to look like a tie.

In this case I think it’s pretty obvious what the composer means, so I think I’d make a fool of myself by asking

[Knut_Nergaard]

@fratveno

@Knut Nergaard

Or you could ask the composer what he meant, and persuade him to alter the notation. If he’s available to do it, that is. Otherwise, I would use a slur and tweak it to look like a tie.

In this case I think it’s pretty obvious what the composer means, so I think I’d make a fool of myself by asking

Based on Wizarts comment, I guess that’s true. I can’t remember ever seeing this, though.
Anyway, faking a tie or creating an accent-like playing technique, as described in the other articulations thread, is probably your best option, unless Dorico allows you to place an articulation on consecutive notes within a tie chain.

[dspreadbury]

@Wizzarts

tied notes with an accent on several notes is not so un-common as people might think. Especially wind instruments would add some breath (sort of attack) to create such an emphasis. I have seen this too often to call it a minor effect.

Well, Dorico can’t represent this at present, at least not with a single note, which is normally what a series of tied notes actually is under the hood. This is because articulations are represented as properties of notes (technically, three properties, which is why you can have one articulation of force, one of stress, and one of duration on a note, but not more than one of any of them). Even entering separate notes and then joining them with a tie wouldn’t allow you to have an accent on each note in the tie chain, because when you tie two notes together, Dorico combines them under the hood into a single event, maintaining the notated splits according to the original durations of the notes.

So I think you would actually have to enter these notes in separate voices, add an accent to each of them, and then join them with ties: notes in separate voices are not combined together into a single event.

@Wizzarts

Another quite common thing is to connect two notes of the same pitch with a slur rather than with a tie. ie. in the original polka music (Boehmen-Maehren) the 2nd voice has to support the 1st voice in a slurred passage which will be played with sort of “bady” decrescendos to separate those notes rather than adding a gap.

Joining two notes of the same pitch with a slur is of course absolutely fine, but of course the second note will be re-struck in playback.

@Wizzarts

A tenuto plus staccato over a single note means “portato” (very soft attack/full duration) - when a group of notes should be played portato all notes get a staccato with a slur of them all.

Again, this is fine: provided each note is a separate event, you can use a staccato-tenuto articulation on each note, and join them all with a slur.

@Wizzarts

How will a abreviation be realized, let’s say 2 minims with 1 stroke tied together over a barline?

You mean a single tremolo stroke on the stem, meaning that the note should be played as four quavers? The plan is that this will emit four notes during playback.

[Wizzarts]

@Daniel at Steinberg

You mean a single tremolo stroke on the stem, meaning that the note should be played as four quavers? The plan is that this will emit four notes during playback.

Sounds great - and will it allow to add 4 staccato points and a slur? To drive you crazy this should be possible on a single minim with 1 slash as well

[Wizzarts]

here is a quick shot… mean sample

[dspreadbury]

I’m familiar with the notation. I doubt this will be supported in the first version, but in the fullness of time, I don’t see any major reason why we couldn’t support this.

[Wizzarts]

@Daniel at Steinberg

I’m familiar with the notation. I doubt this will be supported in the first version, but in the fullness of time, I don’t see any major reason why we couldn’t support this.

Sure, you are… I am posting those things for other users who are following this discussion as well. Just in case …

PS: Sorry, for the big picture… was smaller when I made it

[JosueViera]

@Daniel at Steinberg

I’m familiar with the notation. I doubt this will be supported in the first version, but in the fullness of time, I don’t see any major reason why we couldn’t support this.

Hi Daniel! Is this notation now supported or not yet? I see the last reply was on 2016… Any updates?

[dspreadbury]

No, Dorico does not yet have a means of showing multiple staccato dots above a single-stem tremolo, but it remains on our wish list for the future. You can add the appropriate signs using Shift+X text in the meantime.