Arturia V Collection VS Halion VS UVI

I’m not gonna mince words here: Arturia’s software does not sound that great (in my opinion). They don’t sound analog at ALL. It sounds like a VST trying to get close to whatever graphic is on the screen. I wish I could get a refund.

Halion’s library is dated and awful in places…but it’s VA Engine (which they should give the engines NAMES)…sound superior in every way to every VA in that suite.

UVI’s Synth Anthology 4 is impressive. UVI’s sampling and programming has gotten a lot better over the years. I don’t have access to Falcon at the moment, but I have a lot of their libraries since Plugsound.

One thing I will say is that UVI Player VST is AWFUL. You have effects happening on like 6 different places. No mixer. Really weird effects setup. Too much clicking. Interface is too small. Can’t ever see everything at one time. It’s the worst.

They need to really take a look at Halion Sonic. Steinberg NAILED Halion Sonic’s interface. It’s like having a Kronos on your screen. Very easy to program. THAT is the reason I started with Steinberg: Halion Sonic was so fun to use!

Anyway, still playing with all these VST’s I purchased recently to start doing some shoot-outs on my channel. Stay Tuned!

***Edit, oh the edit
Not to mention the way UVI handles presets. Halion kills UVI in this area too. Light years ahead.

Personally I absolutely love my Arturia synths, there’s no other way I’m ever going to be able to enjoy the likes of CS80, Jupiter 8, ARP2600, Mellotron, Fairlight etc.

Bought SQ80 when they were first released, it’s nice being able to play with one again.

Sure no software package is going to be for everyone, maybe if I had the actual synths to compare side by side I might notice a difference, that said there’s numerous vids of people doing exactly this and usually saying that while there’s a very very slight difference, most people would never know unless they did do a side by side comparison.

Each to their own.

I own the following:

Arturia VX collection, Pigments (which I think is awesome) and MiniBrute V. I also own their Keylab 61 mk2 and Keylab Essentials 49 mk3.

Native Instruments Komplete 14 Collectors edition, plus a few things they’ve released since . I also own their S88 mk3 and Maschine mk3

Spectrasonics Omnisphere

Steinberg Absolute 6

I own a few things from other companies too.

Out of the above, if I had to name one that I wouldn’t really miss, it would be Omnisphere, sure it’s got awesome sounds but for some reason the interface etc just doesn’t gel with me. But other people love it and have it as their main go to and that’s great, we are all different.

I do think HALion has a kind of warmth to it that’s lacking in Kontakt, although hard to put my finger on it/explain what I mean.

I totally understand as those synths are classics. I think if you have operational familiarity with the originals-getting 80% there is probably a good thing.

I guess I’m talking more about the bottom line sound quality. The Aurturia engines are of lower quality. Compare one of their synths to Diva. Compare one of their synths to Tone2 Icarus.

On the synthesizer engine sound quality tier list…Aurturia ranks with Air, Waves,Synth Master- on the next to bottom tier.

But it’s very cool you are having a good experience. That’s all that matters in the end. Just having fun playing whatever it is you like to hear!

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Apart from my Les Paul, my absolute favourite instrument.
I’ve bought the Arturia one, the IK Media one, a bunch of freebies, but none are better than loading Taijiguy’s RedTron mellotron samples into HALion. They’re scattered around the web, these days, but for bread and butter mellotron, they’re hard to beat.
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This underscores the importance of personal taste. I personally want to hear sounds from the future, not the past.

The other thing is that certain music genres used certain types of sounds that became famous-and people wanna relive that.

The synthesizer market has been on this tail sniffing thing for much longer than I thought. Companies investing millions to copy 30 year old synths-instead of innovating, building a new generation of instrument.

I think you gonna see how the entire synthesizer market gets superseded very shortly (in a sound quality sense). Some people are willing to push it to the moon to get better sounds and better sounding engines. Others just cash in on somebody else’s ideas.

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My thoughts exactly! I’m baffled by this never-ending obsession with recreating old synths and effects in software. You could do soooo much more with software but a lot of the plugin developers just keep copying the same old stuff from the past instead of coming up with new technologies and original ideas. The lack of creativity and innovation in this industry is perplexing and sad.

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FACTS!

I played with this for a couple months years ago. I think version 2 something. I was impressed. Like really impressed.

It will be interesting to see how all the synths stack up this summer in my Synth Wars Series. Some Algorithms (like Tone2) are superior to Roland’s Cloud offerings.

Spire is superior to SynthMaster. Sylenth is still very good after all these years. Native Instruments is very poor. Beautiful interfaces art wise-but very basic sound design and terrible instrument cohesion. I have no clue how they get over $1000 for those synths. They literally all sound bad. In my opinion. Compared to others.

Get all of them included in this list, you’ll want each of them for their individual strengths.

While I agree with what you say, are we confined by the limits of sound synthesis?
Take a guitar, sure you can have electric, acoustic, 12 string etc, but how much innovation can you do to it? The thousands of pedal effects created over the years, most sound like clones or tweaked clones of the hundreds of other pedal effects created over the years.

Sure they change the interfaces etc, but ultimately, I doubt there’s many guitarists that could listen to 100 random songs using effects pedals and be able to correctly pick which pedal is (or combination are) being used. I suspect the most they could do is say things like “they are using a flanger” or “a distortion”, yet companies still release new pedals all the time.

I like Pigments, that innovative in my opinion, but in all honesty I don’t think I’ve ever heard a patch where I think “wow, that’s a completely new unheard of sound”, sure I’ve heard nice patches, but there’s nice patches on the tons of other modern software synths , but would I call any of them unique, I’m not sure.

Personally, from my Korg Trident, then Roland 106 days, I loved having loads of knobs and sliders that I could tweak in real time, I never understood why they went down the menu driven rabbit hole in the following decades. I liked my D50 but due to the virtual impossibility of programming it without the add on programmer, 99.9% of people with the D50 tended to use the same sounds.

I bought a Kong Kronos, I initially thought that had potential, but I soon sold it, to me it was basically a very slow PC in a case. It was nice, but I might as well use VSTs (it also took about 2 minutes from turning it on until it was ready to play)

Hardware synth wise, if I was to but one today, it would have to have loads of buttons etc (I don’t play live anymore, retired 7 years early due to ill health ) . I just love being able to tweak the sounds as I play. I know it sounds stupid, but if it doesn’t have a ton of buttons etc for real time sound manipulation, I’m not even going to give it a look. I see something like say the Arturia Polybrute 12 and without even hearing it, all those buttons, I already like it, again I know to a lot of people that’s a stupid way of doing things.

I would love a really ground breaking new keyboard instrument to come along, whether hardware, software or both. I sadly think I will be waiting a very long time

I only ever purchased the CMI V instrument from Arturia and I will be mining that for ever. You can actually load up your own samples into it and make new sounds if you want. You can also do heaps more with it than you could on a Fairlight. Arturia gives you a lot of the old sounds but they incorporate futuristic elements too – so you as the muso can develop it and take it elsewhere. I’m very happy with that purchase anyway. Arturia provide pretty deep documentation for each instrument as well as a lot of online tutorials.

I use the free version of Halion and can’t imagine I would ever need more than what that can do but I’m mainly a guitar player.

The Sampler in Cubase is also a good place to load up samples and manipulate new sounds to play around with. There’s already too many options for me.

I get this, but I think it sidesteps the real issue. A guitar is a pure instrument. So is a flute. We are speaking of digital workstations and synthesizers. THIS is technology.

Lack of innovation has stifled the synth market so much that I literally made my own over the last 8 years. I just don’t get investing so much money copying other peoples work…over and over and over.

Plus, if I were the original designer of the Prophet 5 or Moog whatever, I would not be pleased with everybody stealing my stuff!

I think in the coming months we are going to see a New Generation of Synthesizer emerge from the shadows. It’s going to be a hard year for sound designers who slack.

A LOT of them slack.

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You hit on a very valid point, one I’m guilty of.

In the 80s, I bought a synth, I learnt it inside out. Now, the amount of different software synths I own is staggering (although a lot sound and act similar to each others hence this topic) .

I would possibly create more unique sounds if I only owned a handful and spent the time learning them properly.

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Yes. The choices we have today are indeed staggering. That is a good thing in many ways but it also can lend itself to option paralysis. We have so many vst instruments and presets available now – as well as near limitless tracks. It can be overwhelming. Part of the digital era is navigating a pathway where nearly any option is available to you but you have to make a choice. It’s funny but I produced more music when I used tape recorders and 4 tracks and limitations were always a part of the process.

Having said that, I’m sure each of the Arturia synths is a very deep tool in its own right with a lot of options for new and innovative sounds even though they are presented through a lens of a retro instrument.

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I’ve never used a sampler in 35 years and counting, except to mangle the sound to absolutely unrecognisable and a little bit more on top of that; I want my synths to sound like synths, just like no one perhaps expect your Steinway to suddenly start playing a monophonic 2600. Ah, um, sorry, I’m lying to you: I once owned a Mellotron VSTi. My comparison, naturally, will touch only tangentially on the sample oscillators.

I have the fewest experience of the three with Arturia, so I’ll start with it. I have no idea how to compare a collection of pre-built instruments with a single powerful synthesizer. You can build instruments with Halion 7 (henceforth H.) and Falcon 3 (F.), but you can only play with what you pull out of the bottomless box of the Arturia collection. Whichever is your thing, chalk it up as a positive or negative.

Arturia V Moog Modular is totally moogsy-modularsy; I feel that they have done an excellent analogue modelling job. If you have a little more than infinite patience, you can any sound that plays in your head, just what Dr. Moog prescribed. If the patience of those who do honest to the last resistor analogue modelling, let it be a solace for you. I did. I know. Standing on one leg for a week is perhaps easier. Which shortcuts did they take, I have no idea, but it sounds moogsy, if you know what I mean.

IMO, Korg 2600 is better sounding and easier to use. But when it comes to the comparison of 2600s, it’s inevitably IMO. Whoever wants to chime in with an objective argument, by all means do!

The closest to H. and F. comes Arturia Pigments, which is also a synth builder machine. IMO, IMO, and again IMO, it manages to suck and blow at the same time when situated within a direct line of sight of either H. and F. Not being a vacuum cleaner, this puts it on a lower tier than either of the two. But since they threw into the full collection, nice. You’re compelled to neither use nor ignore it. If it makes that sound that buzzes in your head, why not?

For the rest, I’ll compare H. and F., as I’m familiar with them. Let’s try to chalk up [non-]differences, strengths and weaknesses of each.

Both are multipart synth construction machines. Personally, I rarely use multitimbrality, only when comparing A/B/C/D/E… sounds: it’s easy to multiply a part, tweak each and then change MIDI channel in Cubase to select the final version. H. has 64 programs and up to 64 mono outputs, and one 5.1. F. has 32 program slots, 32 stereo outputs and no 5.1. I’m not sure if it’s capable of 5.1-synthesis, and how important it is. Otherwise, both have more program slots than you’ll ever need anyway.

A minor difference that will be important is that H.'s program tree looks like Program > Keygroup {… > Keygroup } > Zone, while F. uses Program > Zone > {Heaped Keygroups}. Both approaches are sensible. The largest difference between the two is the granularity of their components. F. is a Lego. When you drop an oscillator onto Keygroup (the leaf of the tree!), it receives an ADSR envelope by default, and that’s it. If you want a filter—and you perhaps do!—you must add it explicitly, in the chain of effects. In either of the two, you add effects into a bus associated with the Zone, Keygroup or Program. In F., you don’t get free 2 LFOs and other modulations; you add them by hand. This is clumsy; I’d rather delete what I don’t want, my time isn’t free. H.:0.5, F.:0. No biggie at first sight, but here we get the first difference in scoring:

H.:1, F.:1. Falcon effects are controlled by the modulation effects; in H., the only way to control them is by assigning a CC to the source and using it to control the destination. However, F. has its own idiosyncrasy: not all modulations modulate everything! For example, an ADSR envelope at the zone level does not modulate the filter’s drive knob. Layer-level envelope does. Just enough to get crazy before you figure it out. Let’s adjust it to H:1, F.:0.5. This makes zero sense.

Next, filters. H. has 3 or 4 (IDR). But these are good filters. F. has a lot, but most of them just meh. I’m a BsEE, so I know what “Sallen & Key filter” is; you, a sound designer, rather don’t have to, you want to hear it and say “yup, that’s what I want” (Sallen & Key topology is quite neutral: that was the design idea behind it, not musical at all). Quantity doesn’t mean quality. H.:2, F.:0.5.

Effects. Oooh, Falcon’s Thorus! Oooh! I want it! It’s not The Real Thing, it’s The Surreal Thing! +1.5. H.:2, F.:3.

There are a few minor but nice effects that help make the sound more analogue, if that’s your goal, or more this, or more that. For example, smooth random generator: not S/H, but rather a slow random walk, attracted to the centre. I made the same effect using H.'s Step Modulator with smoothness set to eleven, and randomly assigned positive and negative steps. But it’s not random. But you can’t tell anyway. +0.25. H:2., F:3.25.

I would say that the rest of the effects are on par between the two. F. has a nice optocoupled compressor/limiter (a switch), but as soon as you turn on tube emulation (another switch), each sounding voice eats 10% CPU. H., on the other end, is very mindful about performance. A draw.

F. is more stable than H. I have a large screen, and have an open (for months) a bug related to a crash on a large pixel count screen. F. has yet to crash on me. H:2., F:4.25.

H. has 8-op FM synth, F. 4-op. Not a big deal most of the time, until it is. Let’s give H. its due. H:2.25., F:4.25.

F. has an additive oscillator, H. doesn’t. For the life of me, I couldn’t make a similar sound using any of the H.'s oscillators. So, big deal. F+1. H:2.25., F:5.25.

H.'s wavetable is a Wavetable. No, it’s a WAVETABLE!!! All you can do in F. is to have prepared a file of equal-sized wavecells in an external editor and load it. Fugget a formant filters per cell. Fugget a filter envelope per cell. (Maybe, H.'s manipulation with the complex amplitudes is a bit of an overkill; I could never make any good out of it, but I made a singing robot out of 5, five, yes FIVE wavecells in H. Try that in F—no, don’t, that was a sarcastic remark) Compared to H., F. has no wavetable. H.+1.5, wavetable is not such an exotic thing to not do it right. Or usable. H:3.75., F:5.25.

H. has 8 assignable QC knobs per program; F. has no (reasonable) limit. I like how it’s done: you right-click on anything and make it a quick control, and it pops up somewhere on the Macro page for the program. All the SVG mucking optional. You may simply arrange them into a grid or whatever on the default background. +0.5 at the very least. H:3.75., F:5.75.

Granular synth is a tad more powerful in H., +0.5. There are a couple of other sound sources in F.: plucked string, bowed string and noise factures. Well, the former two don’t sound like what it says on the tin (IMO, IMO, IMO), and I can make noisy factures in a dozen ways on the H., analogue, granular or wavetable source. Meh. IMO, of course.

I already mentioned that I never use sampled instruments. It is said that F. has IRCAM sample oscillators of an exceptional quality but are on the CPU hogging side. But maybe H. does no worse, I just dunno.

As for the libraries, to my taste, they are way, way, way far too modern in both synth. I may peek how the sound is made, but when I make my own, my recipe does not include 1/3 Habanero peppers, 1/3 Agostino bitters and 1/3 sugar; I prefer something more palatable. So I leave the comparison of the libraries and samplers to someone who understands these matters more than I do.

Usability in F. is not well-thought at all, or maybe I’m just dumb (or both). I could not find a simpler way to move an LFO from a zone to program level than

  1. Copy the LFO via a hamburger menu (2 clicks);
  2. Create an identical LFO where I want it (many clicks);
  3. Paste copied LFO data to the new one;
  4. Delete the original;
  5. Connect the new LFO to the knob (one but extremely awkward drag gesture).

And the thing shows the tree not unlike H.! Usability is a thing. This and other horrors, I accumulated at least -1 of gripes only on F.'s usability side. H:3.75., F:4.75.

As you see, both instruments are excellent, both can make a lot of fantastic sound—with blood, toil, sweat and tears invested, but sound design is a work that’s not supposed to be easy. My final scoring for what I do with them and what I hit my poor head against in the process; they’re fairly close, when converted to a single number. But really they are two different synths, as, say, Buchla and Moog are two different modular synths. The East Coast and The West Coast are both coasts, but that’s not even a point to make. It’s all down to nuances, IMO, IMO, IMO.

And is Arturia Collection your thing? It is if it is; otherwise, it isn’t. Sorry, but this is the only piece of advice that I can comfortably share. All three should have an evaluation period, you may usually call and ask during evaluation, and many makers even extend it if you explain that you need a bit more time to decide. But the decision is yours in the end. Good luck!

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This. Some synths ship with over 10,000 sounds. That’s nuts. Give me like 2,000 EXCELLENT sounds.

The other side is having to figure it all out, and you’re not writing music anymore. You’re a home studio tech support dude with ambitions.

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Yep, and this is why Halion is so powerful. If you are willing to take some time and sample in some better sounds-the sky is the limit.

Right now, I don’t know of any VST that can match Halion’s core audio engine (if you have black magic skills) in sound creation.

The library is awful-but you can fix some of it (boomy reverb on everything, lots of low end boom on every sound, just raw dated sounds.

The Wavetable,VA, and Granular engines sound amazing if you start to layer all three or more. I just wish we had a more aggressive team in place for Halion’s development.

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@cnyll

Many thanks for that, a very very interesting read.

I’m new to Halion (bought it 70% off in recent 40th anniversary sale) but what I’ve tried does somehow sound different from others, I can’t put my finger on it although to be honest, I have mainly been tweaking it’s presets. It will be interesting learning it.

Arturia have allowed me to own my dream synths that I could never afford either then or now (CS80 for example) , buying their V collection during their summer sale a few years ago and upgrading to their latest V collection at a very reasonable price in their last sale, all I can say is I’m very happy with the collection. Pigments isn’t part of the collection but again got it in a too good to miss deal.

Falcon is one I’ve never tried, it looks very good but I have enough things to last me until I die, so I suspect I’ll never buy it, then again who knows. Not a lot I want for Christmas and birthday so one year I could always ask my loverly wife (maybe get the kids (adults) to chip in) for it, but if I had it now, it would be a waste, I need to learn what I already have and make music.

Like @wildschwein said, I too seemed to make more music when I just had my Atari St, Steinberg Pro24 (only midi recording), a drum machine and one multi timbral midi synth. Very very little to sidetrack me away from my actual playing.

Not a sampler. In that you can’t record. Like Kontakt isn’t a sampler. It’s a sample playback engine.
HALion is the only sampler I’ve ever owned and I’ve never used it’s sampling features.