I’ve seen a few topics that are similar to this but not exactly the same (referenced at the bottom). So, I wonder if this is something everyone with symphony orchestras is putting up with or is there maybe a cure, or maybe it has improved in Dorico 6. I am with Dorico 5 Pro after the untimely end of the road for Finale.
So, periodically, I’m rediscovering that assigning instruments and channels is a major pain with large orchestras.
Either assigning new instrument or changing its channel leads to that massive reload of VST-everything. In example, I change instrument and then comes the reload. Then I change its channel and then comes the reload again. Next instrument. Repeating this sequentially for a large orchestra eats massive amounts of time.
If it were possible to just set both the instrument and the channel before a reload, that would halve the spent time. But thinking bigger, I wonder if it wouldn’t be possible to have something like Deferred Loading or Offline Edit mode for this, so the user can freeze the trigger-happy reloader, select everything, and then unleash it again.
Clearly that isn’t right. I see a bit of latency as well, but it’s on the order of .5-1.5 seconds. Best thing to do would be to attach a diagnostics file: Help → Create Diagnostic Report. Dorico drops it on your desktop.
This is probably going to sound unhelpful. But it looks like you are trying to use Dorico as you would use a DAW. eg Why do you need four separate players for tremolo strings, rather than simply notate tremolo on your existing strings player?
This is likely leading to your system loading many more VSTs than you really need and straining your system.
That seems very unusual. What VSTs and libraries are you using?
This is why creating a playback template is essential. It’s a bit of work to create, but once made, you can apply it to any document and have all instruments configured in seconds.
If you’re coming from Finale, a Playback template is like a soundmap.
I am combining Steinberg’s HAlion Sonic (HS) with Native Instruments (NI) via Kontakt.
A problem I have encountered with NI in Dorico is that Live Stage settings don’t apply to individual NIs in Kontakt, but rather one setting is applied to all of them. I didn’t want to set up half of panning and spacing in Kontakt and half in Dorico. So, I elected to load every Kontakt instrument as a single-instrument VSTI.
Strings are also a special case. I like String ensemble from HS but for tremolo I strongly prefer what NI offer. I tried to ‘Enable Independent Voice Playback’ in the Track Inspector, to keep both instruments in the same track. But the software refuses to take my input and resets it to whatever it originally placed in the field. All of it is compounded with those long waits between every operation. I gave up on exploring that.
Also, thanks for pointing out Dorico Diagonstics. I know it’s a common thing to post the zip file, and might do it at some point in the future. As long as it’s done in a public forum, however, I’d have to scrub it of some personal info that comes with folder structure and usage times that it documents. I can’t be caught posting that to the free web.
Having grepped the logs myself, they have no errors per se, but there is a repeating theme of:
$ grep "warn" *.log
...
[warning] WARNING: requested plugin state for slot index 5, but this doesn't exist in audio engine data
[warning] WARNING: requested plugin state for slot index 6, but this doesn't exist in audio engine data
[warning] WARNING: requested plugin state for slot index 7, but this doesn't exist in audio engine data
[warning] WARNING: requested plugin state for slot index 18, but this doesn't exist in audio engine data
[warning] WARNING: requested plugin state for slot index 19, but this doesn't exist in audio engine data
...
and some of these
[warning] WARNING: audio device not responding - check device settings
[warning] AdlerRequestQueue taking a long time to be serviced: Processing Current entry: Y
[warning] Unable to find an entry for this kit
I could take it as my pet project to remove all VSTIs from this score and re-add them.
Have you set them to use different outputs in Kontakt?
Filepaths are included, and the times of your actions, but unless your filepath gives away confidential information, like the title of the next James Bond film, there’s no security risk from just having a known filepath on your computer out in the wild.
You can email the Diagnostic Report directly to @Ulf at: U dot stoermer at steinberg dot de
who is the expert on audio problems, and whose discretion is absolute.
You just need to apply the Silent playback template.
You probably have the Auto playback template applied. If so, yes, Dorico will always attempt to route instruments to their configured destinations. If you want to load differing VSTs to play around, the Silent template tells Dorico not to auto-load/auto-route any instruments.
As @benwiggy already mentioned, please send me a diagnostic report. Especially make sure that the problematic project is loaded when you trigger the diagnostic report. That will give me a first overview. And yes, I guarantee full confidentiality.
Thanks
Thank you for so much engagement. I have an update for you
Update
This led me down the rabbit hole. So, I’d never touched Kontakt’s output settings before, and it was no surprise it wasn’t connecting properly with Dorico.
I sat down and learned how to do this, and now I’m able to set up an orchestra while loading very few instances of instruments, which makes everything go much faster. The OP-reported slowness was likely the result of loading ten instances of Kontakt and eight instances of HAlion Sonic for the original score, combined with the outputs not being set up like they should be.
Thanks for mentioning it.
Setup steps
It appears I missed a number of steps from:
Display the ‘Outputs’ section in Kontakt
Use Kontakt’s option: Batch functions / Clear output section and create one individual channel for each loaded instrument
Assign all instruments perfectly sequential MIDI channel numbers, i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4, …
I kept it at up to 8 instruments per Kontakt instance if each is using 2 channels. Just to be safe.
Assign these instruments in Dorico, and make sure the endpoint configuration looks good.
Sometimes, restarting Dorico after saving everything might make things work.
Discover the expression maps and start playing with them.
Lots of weirdness was about until things clicked between Dorico and Kontakt. Then everything started just working like it’s supposed to. Wild.
Waiting vastly reduced
With instruments redone, the Play section has become far more manageable in terms of waiting.
I see we got attention from @Ulf . Happy to share the data even though this issue seems resolved. (need still to figure out which post to mark)
Work ahead
A next thing to learn is how to deal with those templates @derAbgang mentioned. Dorico kept overriding my HAlion Sonic setup and adding new HAlion Sonics whenever any of the instruments didn’t have an assignment, which was pretty much getting in the way.
Managing playback using multiple libraries can be a herculean task to set up. Each library will require its own set of Expression Maps (as there is no standard way to trigger articulations) and balancing volumes between libraries is not a trivial problem.
Good luck with your efforts. Let us know how you get on.
