bar number change issue

Hi, after I inserted a bar number change my self on a beginning of a new flow, Dorico continues inserting “his own” number changes, as I choose some time signature. But not always…Sometimes…Is it a bug?

The bar number change is part of the time signature, so when you create a time signature from the ‘Used in this flow’ panel, any bar number change that’s part of that time signature will be applied as well.

It’s easily explained: you’re grabbing the 4/4 from the “Used in this flow” section of the right panel. That specific 4/4 has a Bar Number Changed built into it. If you grab the 4/4 from the Common panel or use the popover it’s fine.

Good question as to whether it’s a bug, though - I’m honestly not sure!

edit: Daniel got there first. Not something I’d seen before, though :wink:

I’ve seen this idiosyncrasy with pickup measures too.
If at the beginning of the flow, you start {4/4,1}, the “4/4” entry in the ‘used in this flow’ box will always cause a pickup and you cannot have another 4/4 in that box without the pickup.

Thank you Daniel for your explanation. What an idea is behind it? It brings just unnecessary confusion.Could you imagine a situation when such functionality would be useful? Customers will for sure continue asking you about that.

If you’re not the first one in 2.5 years, you’re certainly only the second or third…

To be honest, I never use the time signature panel anyway. Typing 23/8 again is quicker than hunting through a list of recently used items (in random order) to find it!

I’m with Rob on this one. I think I used that signature right panel once in 2.5 years.

Indeed. It requires a user to
A) insert a bar number change at the same location as a time signature and
B) insert the same time signature elsewhere in the same flow, using the top section of the panel.

It’s not exactly surprising it doesn’t come up here often.

I certainly agree that it is not obvious from first principles that a time signature should come with a bar number change attached, any more that it is obvious that a non-default barline should come with a time signature attached, and wherever possible we try to keep these somewhat distinct musical concepts separate. But in fact in Dorico they are all part of the same thing, since it is only by way of time signatures that any barlines exist in Dorico at all, and hence it is only by way of time signatures that bar number changes or indeed non-default barlines can exist. Perhaps what we need to do in the fullness of time is show somehow which time signatures have a pick-up bar or a bar number change attached in the “Used in this flow” section of the panel.

Thank you Daniel for your explanation. Pianoleo, Marc, I use this panel for the first time as well. But if you do a metronom click for a 30 minutes piece and a lot of bars there have quite complex time signatures, inserting them it with popover again and again takes much more time as just clicking a panel. Thats why I am “1st” or a “2nd” one which “discovered” this issue. It is not a problem if you know, but if you don’t - it takes time to understand why after a while I am getting a wrong bar number again and again…

I get it. If I understand it correctly, the steps is to start with inputting the complex time signature, and once it’s done, you tweak the bar numbers ?

yes, that is what happened to me. The first time I used dorico, I started with a (4/4 , 1} and everytime I changed back to 4/4 (clicking on “used in this flow” box) , I got this weird single beat measure. Cruel trick on a newbee :confused:

Probability of finding this = P(using the "used in this flow box) * P(altering that keysig).
We’re so lucky :smiley: