Does anyone encounter following problem:
Using Dorico 6 pro
Playback template: BBCSO Core
Instruments: I used violin I (but the problem occurs on any instruments)
Routing: BBCSO Violin I
Expression map: BBCSO Core Strings
Problem: Playback of a half note right after a semiquaver note sound very soft/weak initially, then sound normal. How to remove the initial soft/weak sound?
If I add staccato to the semiquaver note, then the half note will sound normal. I hope there is a better fix.
Thanks
Chun
Could you supply a screen shot of the area of your observation in the staff and maybe also the piano roll showing, say, dynamics and cc 1 automation?
Dorico 6 pro using BBCSO Core violin - Full score - Flow 1.mid (325 Bytes)
Dorico 6 Pro using BBCSO Core violin.pdf (79.3 KB)
Hello Chris,
Thanks for helping.
If you check the attached pdf file, I circled the 3 half notes in red that sounded soft initially, then normal volume (seems the dynamic wheel was very low then turned up to normal volume), but the other two half notes I circled green sound normal.
Thanks
Chun.
Dorico 6 pro using BBCSO Core violin.dorico (1.4 MB)
Hi Chris,
I uploaded the Dorico object if it can the checking.
But I can't upload the mp3 for you to listen.
Thanks
Chun
when I play your project with my own Expression map for BBC Core, the half note sounds normal. There seems to be something in the EM but so far I can’t work it out. Will have a look in the morning – must be an answer somewhere.
I assume you don’t have the NotePerfomer Performance Engine for BBC Core? That tends to give more reliable playback for this orchestra as I found when I tested just now on this extract. The problem is that small differences in note position and length can led to quite different results because of the latency involved in the long patches. My initial thought was that this was a typical swell into the note which can occur with Spitfire long patches but then checking your map, I see that you’ve correctly used the legato rather than long patch as default which is different from the “official” map for this library (unless it has been modified since I first tried it out).
What i find particularly bizarre in you example is that the third bar plays back correctly, despite that being a repeated note as in the others (apart from bar 4 which also plays correctly).
Have you tried to delete automation? I usually have such issues when I import a project from a DAW. So I go to the menu option Play>automation and then choose all or just the higlighted section with the issue assuming I still want to use some automation.
Playback overwrite might be an other culprit for such issues.
I reset the playback settings to default and removed any playback overrides and automation. No audible difference – I don’t get the impression that the settings were changed anyway in this case , though it certainly is true that in cases when projects are imported from a DAW that the unexpected can happen.
The thing is that the BBC Core does have a reputation for being somewhat difficult in notation software which is why so many of us users went down the NPPE path when it was still available. It’s not perfect – there are still some timing irregularities – but the overall experience is much improved with this particular library.
There is something not working correctly in the EM.
There are several natural definitions and the playback will be legato in your project as this is the first natural whereas it is of course no legato. It should be Long but that is never activated as this is the second articulation defined using natural. There is also something weird with CC1.
To get the Longs activated as natural you can delete or change the legato natural and then it should in theory work but even then it does not as for some reason despite the slow tempo your EM considers all notes very short and this will direct to staccato (as defined in the EM). So I also deleted that natural and then expected it should work.
But it did not. CC1 jumps to zero and remains there. The only way I could get it to play correctly is to also delete this third natural and redefine it simply with C#-2 and CC1 and CC11 as controllers (no limits on the values 0-127).
Even then it might not be as you want as the 1/16 also plays as long. I therefore reinstated the deleted natural with <=short and then the 1/16 plays staccato (in relation too loud as usual with BBCSO).
Dave, are you using expression map from bbcso core or your own?
Btw if I use halion HSO violin (which ship with Dorico 6 pro), same behavior. The half note after a semiquaver note sound soft initially then normal (noteperformer does not has such problem
I’m assuming this is reacting to the feedback from several users, including myself, who have found that you should indeed use legato as the default long patch. It doesn’t take much experimenting with the library to realise why. The Long patch is primarily (as indeed seems to be the case in the Spitfire Symphony Orchestra) for sustained chordal type textures which is often not the sort of music people write. The legato is much more generally flexible.
Of course at times you need the long patch so my solution is to assign this to a sostenuto user-defined p.t. (and this could also be tried out in the particular situation here if desired) The marking in the score can always be hidden if not appropriate for real players.
My comments were related to the dorico file with a Core EM posted in the first few posts. I indicated the required corrections needed to make it work but as you mention there are always playback improvements to make often dependent on note length.
yes, it’s not a situation with straightforward solutions as we’ve all discovered.
Same scores, does not happen in noteperformer ( their playback is the best I think, but sound of string could be better, that’s why I try to replace it with BBCSO Core, but does not workout)
it doesn’t happen with BBC Core NotePerformer Playback Engine either but if you haven’t already bought this, it’s unfortunately too late now. If you have, I strongly recommend using it.
I did use noteperformer 5 as the playback engine (i. e. Playback template is NP5 on Dorico 6 pro.) then use BBCSO Core violin, viola, cello, DB and BBCSO string expression map. (Other instruments use NP5)
That’s where I first experienced the half note in initial softness problem.
Then I tried using BBCSO Core as playback template (No NP5 at all) same problem
Then I tried using Dorico HSO (no NP5 or BBCSO Core) also has same problem.
Using NP5 alone has no problem, but I try not to use NP5 string.
there strikes me as being one immediate problem with this test score – your score has a solo violin but BBC Core does not have solo strings. NPPE will immediately spot the mismatch and revert to using a native NotePerformer solo violin which, as you’ve said, doesn’t sound very nice. Using the BBC Core natively, this discrepancy doesn’t matter. In the attached, I changed the solo violin to a section, loaded this instrument into the NP playback engine and applied the NP playback template to the score. The issue you describe is gone.
If you want to mix native NP with NPPE instruments, you should be using the NP playback template and Expression Map throughout.
Chun_Tong did you correct the EM in the original setup? If you change it as I indicated all works OK.
Although the 1/16 note will always sound loud relative to the longer notes. That is a BBCSO characteristic for all instruments. You can change that when you deactivate global in the Spitfire plugin and reduce the volume just for the staccato and spiccato.