There is another approach to the subject you’ve mentioned: the love of doing things. We often assess activities based on their efficiency and how easily we can accomplish them—whether they come effortlessly or require significant struggle. Naturally, the first option is preferable, as life is short and we have so much to do. However, there is also a contemplative perspective that suggests the outcome itself is not the most important thing; rather, we should enjoy the process simply because it is happening. Interestingly, this approach can still lead to the desired result—perhaps even accelerating progress—allowing us to achieve our goals in a patient and seemingly aimless way.
After the first few days with Dorico—which were truly disastrous—I started to love the process, even though I was incredibly clumsy and inefficient. And that love is what kept me going. I could have easily returned to Finale, but instead, I enjoyed this clumsy exploration of something unfamiliar and challenging. Over time, I learned most of what I needed for my work and am now absolutely thrilled to use Dorico. But without that initial love for the process, I wouldn’t be where I am today.
Again -thank you all for the helpful and kind responses. They’re all great ideas and I look forward to checking out the suggestions soon. To be clear - I’m not complaining about Dorico - as I believe it most likely is a better, more thought out program. Lord knows finale was no walk in the park, and similar years learning in Logic. I think I had hoped or assumed that there would be more compatibility in the programs. My issue is more about my own brain and how I have never been one that can sort of see a big picture answer/issue and then apply it to a more specific issue. Also I think I’m a visual learner - and so the videos are so helpful and plentiful. I have made some progress of course, which I don’t often acknowledge - because I’m still at the stage where I finish one lead sheet and then encounter new or even the same issues in the next one and my brain takes longer than I want it to to get it. And yes, the idea of enjoying the process I’m able to do in small doses too…but I also have a bit of a deadline to finish these leas sheets so it adds to my impatience with myself. Venting here helps! And I hope it helps others who may be feeling similar things. Thanks again all.
Hey MikeR,
Good to see a familiar face. I am in the same boat. I think Dorico is so convoluted and not user friendly at all so I have decided to stick with Finale as long as possible. Dorico has the uncanny ability to make even the simplest of tasks very difficult to impossible.
I’m not giving up but still when I need to do work I go back to Finale. I also got Sibelius cross platform deal which is the same as Dorico and I think is a much easier transition from Finale. Anyway both have demos if you want to try Sibelius.
EB
Same here Bobwalton60,
I see little easy to do in Dorico. I have completed two concert band scores using Dorico and it was like pulling teeth. I will compliment some of the forum users as helpful but not all. And, yes, I watch all the tutorials but you never know if you have the one that is most up tp date with the version of Dorico you have and that makes it even more confusing. You might give Sibelius a try it has the same offer as Dorico and has a demo just like Finale did.
EB
My issue with staying with Finale is, I have stopped updating my OS - which means I won’t get updates on other apps, including Logic - which I also use quite a bit. So I’m feeling like I should dive into some new program, and I’ve already invested many hours into Dorico. My brain would probably benefit from some one on one with ANY program, so that’s my probably my next step.
As for these forums, I TRY to refrain (haha) from posting questions to every little issue I encounter…but sometimes I feel like if I can’t find the answer I’m looking for within a half hour I want to ask here. Because I impatiently don’t want to sit through a couple 15 min videos and hope that the answer to my specific question is part of the “working staves” (for example) tutorial. Is there any general time frame other users do research before asking here?
I find Dorico very difficult too. However it seems not to have as many strange bugs that can appear “for no reason” in Finale. And the idea that MakeMusic seemed to have about not fully supporting third party sound libraries made it a drag to make playback work. I’ve never really gotten to understand Finale’s VST Banks and Effects window.
With that said, making my own playback templates in Dorico is what I fear the most every time I need to spend time with it. I haven’t been keeping up with that lately, so the next time I will have to go through the manual again. Luckily I have the expression maps in the VSL libraries to rely on meanwhile. The Endpoint Setup is still a drag and I’ve got a draft on my PC that might become a new topic some time.
I really like to not have the need for a third party plugin in Dorico to make the “perfect layout”. And note input is starting to come naturally. There’s hope even for us about to turn 60!
I haven’t even dipped my toe into the playback area. I’m afraid that each new project is going to require a large learning curve. I didn’t use Finale’s playback for anything more than checking notes basically – I’m hopeful that there’s some basic ease in Dorico for that. I don’t see myself giving up Logic to use Dorico’s DAW capacity.
And I’ve seen some responses about Finale and updating OS etc…that is something I will have to look into. Because the OTHER thing I haven’t done yet…is convert all my Finale files into xml. I don’t know about that step…
In any forum to which I’m a member, If I get an issue that I can’t resolve immediately and I need help at once I ask about it. Sometimes I find the answer myself just as I’ve posted but then I can be a bit proud and make another post and mark it as the best answer.
My two cents :
I think we have to choose our tool according to our own needs.
Dorico Pro isn’t easy, because it’s primarily designed to engrave the most complex scores.
For other, simpler types of score, there are perfectly adapted products that will be more than sufficient and will have the attraction of immediate results (Sibelius first, for example, or the free Musescore, and many others).
For this type of score, Finale was already totally oversized, and adopting it was more a matter of habit than anything else.
A metaphor: to drill a small hole at home, we don’t need to buy a big Hilti hammer-drill (quite the opposite, in fact).
Hey there - so here is a rough look at what I’m trying to do. I can’t seem to get a double bar at the end of m.4 and keep the repeat symbol at m5. ? Surely I’m missing something easy??
Enter the repeat barline as you have it, and then take a look in Engraving Options > Barlines > Repeats > Barline at end of system coinciding with start repeat
Yes, Obiwan, I’m sure I wasn’t using as much of Finale as I could have…but I would often go from creating some basic “professional” level Piano/Vocal parts but knowing that I had also done orchestrating from small bands to full orchestras - and knew I could adapt with various templates. Anyway…I most likely don’t have 30 years left to hone new skills!
Note entry is not a problem. Even with different shortcuts, I can handle that.
But let me pose one question. In Finale, I could use the Score Manager, a single window, to:
Add, remove, or rearrange the staves
Change the staff name without changing playback
Change the staff style
Change the playback sound (using General MIDI)
Mute or solo instruments
Set the initial clef the clef for each staff
Change the playback channels
Set the transposition
What will Dorico ask of me to accomplish these actions?
I’m not saying that Finale was the absolute best, and for many advanced users, it certainly had its flaws. But many things were a heck of a lot easier, for me at least, once you knew where to look. And Dorico is the same, in that you have to learn where to look. I’ve listed the basic steps that I need. Bells and whistles can come later.
As I think you know, Dorico works in different modes. So changing the playback sound and channels are done in Play mode. Muting/soloing can actually be done in Play mode or in Write or Engrave mode (if you open the bottom panel and display the mixer).
I think the other items in your list will all start in Setup mode. Some things, like clefs and transpositions, are tied to the instruments you choose; if there’s not an instrument that meets your needs (for example, Dorico provides clarinets and horns with several different transpositions), then you can either edit the definition of an existing instrument or create a new variant of an instrument that you can customize.
Finale and Dorico have different underlying paradigms, and different UIs. It’s not realistic to ask, “Where is the window that works like Finale’s Score Manager?” Edit: I know that wasn’t quite your question. My point is just that there are going to be differences.
Edit: As you said, “you have to learn where to look”. This takes a little time, and reinforcement through repitition. But it’s the same as learning any new piece of software.
This reminds me of a joke.
Three brothers at the respectable age of 92, 94 and 96 share a house.
The 96 year old says “I will be going upstairs to have a bath” after which he goes upstairs and runs his bath. He dips his toe into the warm water and shouts “I can’t remember whether I am going to have a bath now or whether I have already finished it”.
“Wait”, the 94 year old brother answers, “let me come and check”. Once he is halfway up the stairs he calls “Oh, I don’t remember, am I on my way up, or am I coming down again?”…
“Oh dear”, the 92 year old brother talks to himself, “I hope I never get as forgetful as my brothers! - knock on wood” (he knocks onto the table three times). So he shouts to his brothers “no problem, I will come up and check - once I have looked who is at the front door…”
Not trying to make jokes at the cost of elderly
people, but: at 60 our brain is still fresh and VERY capable. I remember one of my relations, she played piano as an amateur; at the age of 80 she decided to learn a new instrument and took up the viola. She happily played string quartet for years before she passed away with 92.
source:
Three brothers age 92, 94 and 96 live in a house together.
One night the 96 year old draws a bath, puts his foot in and pauses. He yells down the stairs, “Was I getting in or out of the bath?”
The 94 year old yells back, “I don’t know, I’ll come up and see.” He starts up the stairs and pauses, then he yells, “Was I going up the stairs or coming down?”
The 92 year old was sitting at the kitchen table having coffee listening to his brothers. He shakes his head and says, “I sure hope I never get that forgetful.” He knocks on wood for good luck. He then yells, “I’ll come up and help both of you as soon as I see who’s at the door.”
While I’m on a roll of asking for things in the forum – here is something that has happened several time…it may happen when I’m workin with first and second ending, but I can’t guarantee that’s when it always happens. That is when it happened on this particular tune. Seemingly random ties appearing…in other charts I ended up deleting all the music and just inputting it again…I’m really hoping there’s a better way, and perhaps an answer as to why this seems to randomly happen?
