Bouncing Multiple Versions of a Mix

Do you have any dynamics processing on the master bus? The MUSIC group, when you export it, won’t have that on it and so it could easily be louder and more dynamic than the full vocal version. This is a bit of a flaw in my approach! If you need the dynamics processing on the sub-mixes you might be able to use the sends approach and put the same dynamics processing on the channels the sub mixes are sent to. But even then, if you have dynamics processing, the sub mixes will not sound like they do when they are part of the full mix. That’s unavoidable. It’s also getting quite complicated and error prone and you might be better simply doing 3 exports!

Or you can export without master bus processing - I guess it depends what you need to do with the submixes.

I’m a bit confused when you say it’s going through the same 2 mix. The idea is to export the groups so I’m not sure why you’re listening to to the sub mixes through the 2 mix.

Hi Richard, yes processing on the master buss. Forget my remark about going thru the same 2 mix, I was mistaken.

The “sends” approach should work, trying it in a few minutes. If it does work, I will add this to my template, so it doesn’t have to be set up for each song. Each mix is a “Master” so to speak, so they should all go through the same processing. Of course there will be a slight difference as you say, but no more than when one does a manual, one bounce at a time approach (by turning off the lead vocals for the background Vox mix, etc). Will report back, thanks for all the help!

UPDATE: The sends approach works! Thanks so much, building a template now!

This is indeed working, but I’m so dumb about this…how is this working if the groups are set to nothing for both input and output? Unless the groups are acting as a gathering point and since the individual tracks are still going to the stereo mix, when selecting a given group to bounce, Cubase is only bouncing what is sent to the groups, even though the groups are not assigned to an output…whew…dazzling!

Great that it’s working! I’m still feeling my way around the routing, and have yet to find a clear diagram outside of some old Cubase books. But it seems the Group Tracks can receive inputs from Sends. Even though Input is set to none on the Group Track, any track that Sends to it will also provide input. Having output set to nothing just prevents the Group track from also outputting to your stereo monitors.

Did some more reading and it seems the “official” way may be to use Direct Routing. It’s hidden by default. It accomplishes the same thing as the Sends method, except that it’s always post fader and always on. So I suppose it could be the way to go, given that it eliminates the potential of inadvertently sending the audio pre-fader, or having the send turned off, or having the send volume set accidentally to something other than 0dB. The downside is that the Direct Routing controls are hidden by default. So I’d just go with the Sends method. :smiley:

To have visibility on Direct Routing, you would have to show it here:

  • In the Inspector, select the gearbox on the lower portion and show Direct Routing
  • Open the Channel Editor, open the “Set up Window Layout” button on the upper-right, and show Direct Routing there
  • In the MixConsole, select the Racks dropdown and select Direct Routing to show it there

Once you do that, you could use Direct Routing instead of the Sends to do the same thing. I like using the Sends though. It’s always shown in Cubase by default, and lets you play with the levels if needed.

That’s exactly it. The inputs to the group come only from the sends, and the group doesn’t go anywhere, otherwise some signals would be duplicated in the master bus.

Having a problem now using Direct Outs rather than sends. The full mix of this song sounds fine.

The BACK COV (background vocal) version has the background voices much louder, and I can’t figure out whey.

That shot shows the BVX (back vocals) and how their outputs are configured. I wasn’t having this problem using the SENDS method.
Any guesses at what dumb thing I’m doing wrong here?
Thanks again…

In fact, something is really wrong here…the full mix sounds nothing like the background vocal mix…short examples…

Full Mix is here:

Back Mix is here:

Would love to send this session to one of you who might see something I don’t…?

I’ve never used direct routing so I can’t be much help I’m afraid, but you could do a check of the process by sending ALL your channels to a new channel using direct routing, add your master bus effects to it and then see if it sounds the same as the stereo out.

I just made a simple session with lead vocals, back vocals and drums.

What I am finding with the sends version (and no doubt the direct routing version) is that only the full mix gets whatever you have on your Master (inserts). And there is apparently a bug in C11 so that if you choose to include Master FX on your export, it crashes. I’ve even tried the export with NO inserts on the master and if you choose to include master FX it still crashes.

No joy.

Yes, this makes sense. You need to replicate the inserts you have on your master channel on each of the submix busses.

Unless they fix the “include Master FX” option so it doesn’t crash (at least here)…you’re right…

Even if it worked it might not give you the right results. Bear in mind that the master FX will be driven by a signal which includes tracks you don’t want. But I’m not really about this.

I haven’t read this entire thread so excuse me if I’m misunderstanding.
My one caveat is that I mix entirely ITB so I rarely need to consider outboard or multiple outs.

I simply use either groups or folders; Mute / solo depending on the mix version.

Lead vocal work in one folder and/or group.
Backing vocals in another folder and/or group.
Then simply mute the folder or group that you don’t want included.

The musical component organizing may vary but for “mix minus vocal” mixes simply mute the vocal groups or folders.
I can print 3 versions “babysitting” in under 5 minutes depending on the length of the song.

No I understand how to MAKE multiple mix versions, it’s trying to bounce all versions in one go without standing by the Mac, muting things, starting a new bounce etc. Which is what the new queue feature would be perfect for…

I’m not on 11 yet, but I use Nuendo & direct routing to make different mixes for video productions. Though I’m not in front of my computer, I believe I set up different OUTPUTS in control room. Then I use direct routing to (in “summing mode” so I can send a group to different outputs at the same time) to send to those outputs. The outputs are not routed to anything and I use control room to select which monitor source to listen to. This way I can export the outputs all at the same time (full mix, instrumental, acapella, etc.). Hope this makes sense.

I use groups for various instruments/vocals and can mute a group for a different mix, you have to be careful with FX though, make sure none are on pre fader.

Just finding this post Sunshy…I would really love it if you could go into more detail because would love to try this.

Maybe a simple example, such as a session that had piano, lead vocal, and background vocal.
How would you set this up so that you did one render for piano only, one for piano and background vocal only, and one with all 3 tracks? Thanks so much…

I am actually on vacation now, but will make a simple project and upload it. Please feel free to remind me via PM.

Thank you so much! Looking forward!