Bracketing woo's

I’m having all kinds of problems with main brackets, sub-brackets, etc.
Full orchestra, with singers and double-chorus. Lot’s of condensing (which works very well, even with a 1000+ measure document), but the brackets are really hit and miss from system to system.

Any info or ideas? Would it help to create player groups? Any helpful properties?


Try to avoid bracketing and barline changes as far as possible. Use the settings on the Bracketing page of Layout Options to set up the brackets if possible.

If you do need to create manual bracketing changes, note that they apply to the specific staves that are visible on a given system, so if you have the top staff of a group hidden on one system and create a bracket to the top visible staff, the invisible staff above it won’t be included, so when it then reappears on a subsequent system, you’ll need a new bracketing change to include that staff. Likewise, if you have condensing groups that cause the disposition of players to staves to change from system to system, any bracket you create that starts or stops on a condensed staff really does apply only to that specific staff, and if the disposition changes on subsequent systems, you’ll need to create a new change there.

Hopefully you should be able to achieve the bracketing you’re after without creating manual changes. If not, please let me know more about your requirements, so that we can put them into the hopper for consideration in future versions.

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Thanks for your reply!

I’ve got lots of condensing going. I really wouldn’t mind doing things manually if I could get what I need. Sometimes the Contrebasson will appear outside of the WW bracket. Trying to repair that will cause main bracket problems elsewhere on that system. If I try to add a sub-bracket, it make another bracket disappear. Brackets appear on the vocal parts that don’t have brackets in the first place.

I’ve had to uncheck “Instruments of the same kind within a bracketed group”, because it would join divided 1st & 2nd violins, and if I tried to modify that, other main brackets would disappear on another group or even on the next system.

Have I maybe done something to “corrupt” the document?

No, I doubt it. If you’d like me to take a look, you can send me the project.

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How would I send it to you?

I tried to send you a pm with an attachment, but my file is apparently too big!

First, apply the Silence Template in the Play menu. If teh file is still too large, you may then be able to e-mail the file --or better yet, a portion of it that shows the problem(s)–or put it into a Dropbox-style folder and send the link.
The customary Steinberg e-mails are first initial dot last name at steinberg dot de.

If you e-mail, be sure to include a link to this thread so Daniel can associate the file with the problem you mention here.

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On this behalf, i have i little problem regarding the clarinets: in a full orchestra score where Cl are holding both B flat and A, because of the lack of condensation between the secondary instruments, i need to add a second couple of A Cl and hide in the score layout the original ones but then these condensed two display with a separate bracket cutting the wind section before the bassoons. If i manually change at some point the bracket two things happen, either doesn’t work and the bracket remains divided or it works successfully but cancelling al the other orchestra brackets from then forward… how is this working?

I can’t quite visualise what you’re describing here, Andreas. After the remaining brackets disappear, are you able to recreate them again?

only manually but then something also affects the condensation of some instruments.

first issue is that the second couple of Cl (A to replace those do not condense) break the usual winds bracket. Then, trying to add one manually, creates some further issues.

It’s not unexpected that you would have to recreate the remaining brackets after creating custom bracket groupings. Perhaps the reason you are then experiencing problems with condensation is that you have created the clarinets in A between the clarinets in B flat, so that the clarinets in B flat are no longer adjacent in the score order? If so, position the two additional clarinets in A after the two clarinets in B flat, so that both pairs of instruments are adjacent.

This is indeed the order: 2 fl, 2 ob, 2 Cl (1st b,1st A, 2nd B,"nd A), 2 cl in A, 2 bs… etc
is it normal that the bracket breaks?

i manually put a new bracket for the winds and in the next pages the bracket for the organ disappears, as for the choir…i don’t understand…
by the way, thanks for your time!

The brackets you create in a bracketing change replace all of the existing brackets from that point onwards. If the staves visible in the system change on subsequent systems, you will have to create all of the necessary brackets manually.

they replace the ones i’ve changed obiouvsly but why affecting some others i didn’t touch?