Bring plug-in to front when tweaking parameters. Woo or Boo?

Cubase
,
1

I don’t know where to put this, let’s see if a discussion gets going and I’ll update the tags accordingly, because I’m not entirely sure how things are supposed to work.

Let’s get going.

In the new MIDI remote, using the surface editor, we have the Insert Viewer, where we can “Next Plug-in” / “Previous Plug-in” and then use “Edit” “Bypass” “Activate” to control the plug-in on which the “insert viewer focus” has settled.

Question: Is there, currently, as of .52, any visual feedback as to where the focus is? On which insert slot? (I don’t mean on the plug-in itself when it’s open, I mean elsewhere, on the remote’s page or elsewhere.)

Now, if I start from the beginning and “Edit plug-in”, “Next” “Edit plug-in”, “Next”, “Edit plug-in”, I’ll have 3 plug-in windows open on-screen. Good.

Question: Now, if I go “Previous, Previous” and start tweaking parameters, is there a way for the plug-in window that is being tweaked to pop up over the pile of other windows? I have tried this with Always on Top on and off, but I don’t see any difference. So, is this possible at all? To have each plug-in that is currently under control to pop up from beneath the pile of windows?

Edit: By the way, I’m not only interested in a “solution”. I’m interested in discussing the whole idea. First of all, if it’s possible at all and I’m just doing something wrong. Second, if it’s possible but it’s not implemented due to other gotchas that still haven’t crossed my mind. If it’s something that it should just work but it currently doesn’t. If it’s something I have to build myself (e.g. double press “Edit” so that the buried window closes and opens anew - but why waste resources redrawing the window each time?). If it’s a windows issue pertinent to how windows are handled in general.

3 Likes
2

After trying to use the MIDI Remote (without JavaScript), I have pretty much the same questions.

So for a track with many inserts (e.g. pedal board for guitar tracks with 10 to 12 inserts), I’ve not (yet) been able to create a good MIDI Remote workflow for the reasons you’ve outlined.

1 Like
3

Regarding the title, I’d give it a “Woo”!

At the moment I enjoy a generic remote workflow with a SSL channelstrip in Insert slot 5 of “every” channel (at least nearly…)
And my MIDI Fighter Twister is set to edit the parameters of Inserts slot5 of selected channel, and also brings the plugin to front as soon as I touch any parameter.

As far as I know I cannot achieve this with MIDI remote so far.

It brings an unbeatable feeling and muscle memory control for me.

But I would for shure appreciate, if the new remote evolved to be even more capable. (And if I could handle it with my quite limited scripting knowledge…)

Cheers,
Dirx

2 Likes
4

Yes, when it comes to inserts, generic must still be used.

Ah, excellent! I remember I had seen a video of a lad once that had set up very interesting business with the fighter twister. For how long do you have your twister? Does it hold up well? Are the encoders still in good shape? I think it’s a quality unit, I’ve been thinking of giving it a try.

Ah, now that’s interesting. How do you do that? Do you use a 3rd party app like Bome or is it just the generic?

Yes. What I’m thinking is the following. With the new system, we could do a flam on “Next” and “Edit” for each plug-in in every slot to bring it to front, IF Edit DOES really bring the plug-ins to the foreground - I’ve yet to check this out - but how do you reliably call the plug-in of insert slot 9, when you’re in focus of the track list and the arranger? We don’t see any focus indicator, neither in the inspector’s insert section, nor in the channel settings window, nor in the mixconsole.

So it will always boil down to "If you don’t know where you are, tap previous 15 times, and then tap “next” N times and then Edit to bring the Nth plug-in to the front. I don’t know how effective this method would be, but I don’t know if there are plans for a tree structure within the insert viewer either, similar to how it is in the Strip, or the sends, or the cues. Get in Inserts Viewer, see slot 1, 2, 3…, expand to reveal Inserts Slot 1 > Activate/Deactivate, Bypass, Edit, LOAD (we never seem to have that one, so that we change one plug-in for the other, or load a plug-in in a blank slot for example)

I think that’s where it’s going, and that’s how it should be (in my opinion always), so that we can bypass 9 inserts with their dedicated buttons for example, and not use Next/Previous + Bypass that would take at least 17 button presses for the same action.

1 Like
5

I’ve also returned to my Generic Remote setup with Inserts in the selected channel fully controllable by position in the chain. Activate Wah? Press 3rd button. Bypass Chorus? Press 4th button.

Similar (just a different row of buttons) for opening/closing edit windows for any of the inserts in my current guitar fx chain. etc.

So yes - muscle memory becomes a thing, when being consistent about which kind of plugin one uses in which position. This covers the majority of my use cases, since I don’t put the wah after the reverb very often :slight_smile:

And in the Generic Remote those are all stateful, so the LED lights up on the correct button on my hardware if I open the edit window in the Cubase GUI, and the correct LED lights up when an automation track hits the ByPass button for a specific insert fx etc.

1 Like
6

I think we saw the same video… :crazy_face:
I have the Twister for some years now, bought it used.
I love it, one LED of the rings around the encoders was broken from the moment I got it though.
And the device was coated in some rubber finish on the underside, that became somewhat sticky, unpleasant to touch…I scraped it off. (no native english spaeker here, I hope it becomes clear what I mean…)
Might have been the guy who owned it before did some duct tape experiments with it…

But the rest of the unit feels excellent, maybe someday I’ll swap the knobs to hard plastic ones, but they do feel good already.
The encoders are solid and I feel, that they still transmit smooth.

The best thing by far for me is the “analogue feel”, do not know what exactly is the main reason, but the combination of this device and the generic remote or the midi protocol or whatever, but when I twist the knobs, the knobs of the ssl channelstrip turns about the same amount.
Other controllers (including my AVID Dock) tend to have a higher resolution, but do not translate my real world hand movement 1:1. ( Had this with real world digital Desks as well, problem might be me…)
Worst thing about the DOCK and Eucon is some kind of velocity dependent parameter amount, so if you twist fast or slow you get a different result.
With Twister\MIDI you always get the same result, twisting fast or slow.

For me, this is the best “feeling” controller I had so far. (knobs)

It is just generic, I set up a second generic remote, with every knob set to “VST Mixer / Selected / Ins. 5 Edit”

So both generic remotes connected to the same device. Twist\push anything, it will open.
For shure somewhat limited, but I do not want to miss it.

1 Like
7

Yes, I wish they would continue the generic remote.
There is still potential in it.
If I happen to use a stock compressor in Insert 5 of my setup (instead of the ssl channel strip I have my generic remote setup for), I can even see the gain reduction or the input an output level represented in the led ring around the knobs, huge potential if 3rd party plugins would transmit this…

2 Likes
8

Ah, yes! Neat trick!

9

I’m currently using the new MIDI Remote in combination with the Generic Remote. i.e. my controllers are mapped in both. But I leave some individual hardware controls unmapped in the MIDI Remote and just map them in the Generic Remote.

1 Like
10

^ I think that’s the best approach right now to get results.

My only concern is that if we still rely on the Generic remote to do stuff that the Remote can’t (yet), we might get in a situation (in the future) where the generic remote’s time comes to be phased out and suddenly we’ll wonder why we can’t do what we want anymore. (Because if you have a function at hand, you don’t give much thought to it, you just use it, you take it for granted. But it’s right when it stops working, it’s only then that we remember the lost function. We need to preserve and document each little use case of the Generic remote now, (no matter how esoteric, like binding two or more parameters to one input, using multiple remotes on top of each other, stuff like the Device>Selected>Select that can scroll through tracks with a knob, so that when the generic remote is retired the MIDI Remote shall be able to do all that the generic remote could, and more.

1 Like
11

I share your worry.

12

That’s not gonna happen!

2 Likes
13

Jochen, please don’t take these kind of threads as lack of confidence in you and the team. You are killing it. The new remote is going at a very fast pace considering the scope of the whole thing. Your presence here on the forums, your availiability, your sincere, matter-of-fact way of answering questions, helping users and offering insight, personally I appreciate these things VERY much. Just like now, that you spared time to sneak a reassuring post here.

But, you know, we users just have to keep saying some things so that the importance of the project is not underestimated, and we reach a “eh f$# it, it’s good enough, work’s done” too quickly. Not by you of course! :wink:

4 Likes