Schumann’s Manfred Overture:
Listen here at 4:05:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4t1M6qmxvU
An excellent example, particularly given Schumann’s reputation for not being able to write idiomatically for strings!
Until Henry Wood and Stokowski changed it during the first half of the twentieth century, the layout Vn1, Vc, Va, Vn2 (from left to right) was absolutely standard. The composers expected it and conductors like Klemperer and Boult never diverged from it – under them their orchestras sounded magnificent in real life. Luckily, the layout is making a comeback.
(End of rabbit hole!)
David
that’s interesting if true because as a gross generalisation, in the classical period at any rate, composers tended to regard the 2nd violins as secondary and not equal partners as I would expect nowadays, although of course there are still many not only composers but also virtual instrument libraries who seem to think in those terms. The antiphonal effect with 2nd’s on the right is more logical when they are equal partners whereas if they all on the left, one would expect them to have more of a blending function. At least that’s how I see it.
Schumann has been particularly accused of too thick orchestration and the reason for that I heard recently was apparently that he trusted the standard of the orchestras of the time so little that he wanted to make sure that that at least one part would be playing the melody! Whether true or not, decent conductors these days can bring about more transparency where required with intelligent balancing
It’s undoubtedly true. The only room for subjectivity might be the particular conductors who made a change, though the ones @david-p named are the ones I’ve heard. And the “gross generalization” is indeed too broad, in my view. Think of the contrapuntal passages in the finale of Mozart’s Symphony No. 41, for instance. Beethoven of course provides many counterexamples: the imitative passages in the first movement of the 5th, the opposed scale passages right at the start of the 7th, and so much that happens in the 9th. Sure, everybody writes melody-in-firsts-plus-accompaniment sometimes, but the potential for spatial opposition of the two violin sections was always latent in the seating that was universally used.
I haven’t yet been able to track down that Opus article from the (disorganized, alas) copies on my shelf. @david-p, do you know the piece I’m talking about?
the finale of the Jupiter symphony is, to the best of my knowledge, unrivalled in Mozart’s orchestral output for contrapuntal complexity and of course one could find other examples such as your Beethoven ones. This is obviously not the place to go into detail on these matters but the point is that the seating that was used in the classical period might suggest that you might actually want to compose the melodies for both first and seconds equally (as I usually do) which I’m pretty sure you could statistically prove among hundreds or even thousands of recorded examples is the exception rather than the rule.
I’ll just add that I located the article, which may be of interest to some, so I’ll post the details here:
Opus , Vol. 2 No. 6 (October 1986). David Ranada, “The Orchestral Image,” pp. 16-20.
And I’ll add that its introductory paragraphs tend to support what you were just saying: Ranada says that although L-R separation of violins emerged at the end of the 18th century, it didn’t become the standard until well into the 19th.
Nearly one year after, I’ve revised it to adapt it to the newer VSL Synchron libraries.
Britten, Four Sea Interludes - Dawn
Paolo
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Holy cow, this sounds shockingly good. If you’re willing to share the Dorico file I’d love to see it!
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Thank you very much, Stephen. I’m very shy about the project still in a rough form, but in the meantime I’ll be happy to discuss of the various issues regarding playback.
Paolo
I’m on holiday at the moment so can only get a rough idea from tablet speakers but first impressions were very favourable and I look forward to listening in more detail next week. I like the Sea Interludes and this has a number of good testing points for a mock-up.
Indeed! It’s mostly naked, exposed instruments, and then the massive brass chorus. A very good test for both the sound libraries and the notation program.
Paolo
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Sounds very good to me. Eagerly await your tutorial and more details.
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just auditioned at home on proper equipment. Unless you’re listening very carefully, much of this could pass as a real orchestra and competently conducted as well. Really little more to be said!
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