[bug] cues on bass staff - force stems down on tied notes

When creating cues on treble staff of a piano all the stems seem to change correctly (when having only one upstem voice there).
But on bottom/bass staff of piano stems don’t adjust when cues are inserted (that’s the first small bug):
bf_stems_down.jpg
We can then force stems to face down (in write mode):
force_stems_down.jpg
As you can see all looks good - except the tied note still has the stem up.
I cannot change that behaviour in write mode, but I can select every affected tied note’s stem in engrave to - again - force stem down (which is quite some work to be done in each layout that note appears)

I think this is expected behaviour, rather than a bug. If you only have one voice on a stave then it doesn’t matter whether it’s upstem or downstem; Dorico will point the stems in whatever directions make sense. If you have two or more voices on a staff, whether they’re filled with notation, rests, or cues, Dorico respects the stem directions dictated by the voice. You can argue that it’s not helpful, but my point of view is that it’s logical and to be expected, and I wouldn’t want it any other way.

I beg to differ with this point.

Here’s what I get if I cue the top line into the top piano stave (which has one upstem voice).




As you can see all looks good - except the tied note still has the stem up.
I cannot change that behaviour in write mode, but I can select every affected tied note’s stem in engrave to - again - force stem down (which is quite some work to be done in each layout that note appears)

What you can easily change in Write mode is the voice of the “real” notes. Set them to downstem voice 1, rather than upstem voice 1, and you get this:

P.S. You don’t have to flip stems in each layout - just select the notes in Engrave mode, flip the stems once, then with them still selected go Edit > Propagate Properties.

Thanks for the

Edit > Propagate Properties

tip!

Set them to downstem voice 1

Yes, I could do that if I new before when writing the “real” music what cues I would like to show afterwards and assume they won’t change. Also this would force me to struggle with additional “Ends voice” to eliminate rests for the afterwards unused downstem voice.

Yes, there are workarounds, thanks for the hints.

But I still don’t agree with this
force_stems_down.jpg
beeing expected behaviour after selecting “force stem down”.

Sidenote: It’s true, that this also applies to treble staff cues. It seems that it only coincidentally never affected me or my music.

It’s expected behaviour because it’s consistent with there being more than one voice in the bar. It may not be behaviour that YOU expect, but it’s still expected behaviour as far as the developers are concerned :wink:

Yeah, I can understand (though I don’t like it), that it doesn’t change the stem automaticly.
But I’m already telling Dorico to change (even “force”) the stem downwards, it still doesn’t do it - only on tied notes.

That’s a separate matter, but one that’s very well-known. Whether it constitutes a bug is a question of opinion, I guess, in that there are certainly cases where you’d actually want tied notes to have different stem directions throughout (dependent on other voices entering or dropping out along the way).

That’s a separate matter

Well, that was my initial point. Maybe I didn’t put it the right way, I thought “force stems down on tied notes” was clear enough.

It was indeed mentioned in the title of the thread, but I got side-tracked with what you referred to as “the first small bug”. If you want to discuss the issue with tied notes then perhaps chip in to one of the existing threads on the topic, such as this one: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=112154 this one: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=135395 or this one: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=143653#p773206

I didn’t find these posts earlier, thanks for linking them. Seems like my issue is on the track anyway, so I could also delete this (my) thread completely…