Bug dynamic selection groupings when moving objects in Dorico 4.0.10

When I move objects since the Version 4 Dorico unfortunately does very weird regroupings in the selection.
I inserted an extra bar in my music, then dorico makes crescendi over an empty bar (already this I think is a bug that should be corrected, because musically this basically never makes sense):

If I then select the last bar and with ALT+arrowleft move them one quarter to the left it works the first time well:

if I continue pressing ALT+arrowleft
suddenly he starts to move the starting point of the dynamics.

Something similar happens when I enter dynamics through ALT+click, there too he often suddenly after the click adds something to the selection, which is a killer for the workflow. Can you correct these bugs in the next version, they make the use of dorico really uncomfortable!

Actually I think it makes perfect musical sense. Dorico is simply respecting your original dynamic profile.

I have to say, I really cannot see, how this would make musical sense: how should musicians make a crescnedo in a bar where they don’t play?
I think the only moment where it would make sense is, when I would like to make exactly these notes longer, but usually if one wants to enter a new bar one wants to insert something different there. ANd in this case it makes it very uncomfortable: Now I have to touch EVERY single crescendo beam of every instrument manually and shorten it (i cannot shorten them as a group, as they are still linked with the target dynamic (here mp) at the end. So it takes me about 10 minutes of layout repair until I finally cann add my music in these bars. The other way round it would be much easier: if dorico shortens the crescendi (as it did always in the versions before, as far as I remember!) and I want to make them longer over the bar, then I just select the groups of instruments where I want to make it longer and then with alt+arrow right make them longer until the original target dynamic

Here is what I meant. If I now want to correct this shifted dynamic and I use alt+click on the first note in the bar it works for the first line:

but when I continue to do EXACTLY the same thing for the next instruments, he creates at first this:

than that:

than that

so the alt+click function in these cases is not usable any more it always takes me many more steps to just do a very simple thing. With four instruments thats not so bad, but do this for an orchestra with 80 musicians (divisi strings) its becoming a nightmare!
And this is very unfortunate, because its a development backwords for the Dorico user comfort - it wasn’t like that in the earlier version.
So please please please correct that as it was in the versions before!

@Janus maybe to add for the questions of lines over an empty bar: I can see it making sense for all accelerando/ritardando lines. Maybe for 8va/8vb lines if its in the middle of them. But not for crescendi/decresc.

Or a last example: lets say I continue writing a bar and want to set dynamics for the bar, and then copy it to the other systems

first he continues linking the dynamics, which is not very usefull:

but I thought, OK maybe I can just overwrite this by selecting the bar of the first system and alt-click it to the systems below.

but then strangely he delets the dynamics int he first bar:

(ends the dynamics of the other bars)
and then as in the example above, afterwards he is crashing everything, because he added the dynamics before to the selection:

I think thats clearly something which isnt usefull for any workflow

You’re going to need to get familiar with when to ungroup dynamics. They are grouped by default where they abut rhythmically, but in these cases obviously you don’t want the entire group copied.

@Mark_Johnson No, I know how the group/ungroupings work but in this case it would be good to add a feature thats recognizing if there are bars of rests and that in this case it doesn’t make sense to add dynamics to a group if I only add them to one single bar.

BUT the main problem is a different one (which I found out now and try to show you with a different example):
Since Version 4 Dorico is always adding the object before my inserted object to the selection:

for example if I want to copy this
Bildschirmfoto 2022-03-12 um 13.29.42
into that bar

it works for the first alt+click:

but then as seen on the picture Dorico added the note before to the selection and so when I do the exact same step on the next line its causing this trouble:

For me this doesn’t make sense at all and it wasn’t like this with Dorico 3.5 (I tested it: see here, what happens when I do the same thing in Dorico 3.5 if I copy the 2nd line to the 1st: he shortens the note before and does NOT select it):

So after each ALT+CLICK I need to UNSELECT manually the things that Dorico added, and thats really a killer for the workflow.

So PLEASE dear Dorico Team correct that bug, it makes work with Dorico 4 so uncomfortable!

Sorry for the delay in coming to this thread: I just wanted to confirm that I have made a note of this issue (where notes at the boundaries affected by the paste operation unexpectedly become selected) and we will address this as soon as we can.

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Found another weird variant of this selection bug:
I have selected the forte and the last note and want to move it backwards by ALT + Arrow left

this is what is happening next:

As you may already understand, you moved the note and the f, but not the end of the hairpin. When you move just the f by itself, the end of the hairpin moves with it, because they’re at the same rhythmic position. But including the note in the selection (which starts at that position and ends later) makes it more complicated. You want to move the start point of the note and the dynamic, and at the same time the end point of the hairpin. So it requires two edits.

I guess you are asking for such edits to make musical sense all the time. I’m just trying to observe why that is difficult, with the way Dorico operates.

You can’t practically move both a single note and the final dynamic in a group of dynamics together in a single operation at the present time. I would avoid trying to make this kind of edit.

Regarding this subject, I have a ff for the Marimba at the beginning of the measure (on the last page of the video). When I add a cresc two bars before, the ff automatically moves to the end of the previous bar (on the first page of the video). Is there a way it doesn’t do that and the ff stays where I put it?

No, there’s no way to automatically make that happen: when an immediate dynamic ends at the same position as the start of an empty bar, Dorico will always position the immediate dynamic before the barline. You could move the immediate dynamic (say) one 16th further into the bar.