Solo defeat is useless when applied to any track within a group track or group folder. They do not recognize the solo defeat and mutes even though solo defeat is selected. I believe it is a a major issue especially if your workflow relies significantly on group folder tracks.
I would like to think this is by design. If you solo defeat a track in a group folder the signal is still going out within the folder if you look at that track’s meter. If solo defeat is not activated on that track the signal will be muted as expected and the meter shows no signal.
Can you provide a specific use case?
Sure, thanks for the quick response. Here’s a quick example. In this first picture I solo defeat to the Bass 2 track which is routed to a group folder labeled Bass pre, which is routed to stereo out for the time being.
In the second picture I solo the track labeled Orange, which is routed to group folder Orange pre, which is then routed to stereo out. It is true, the solo defeated track Bass 2 displays data on the meter, but it is abruptly cut off by its Bass pre group folder and produces no audio to the monitors.
The only track soloed is Orange. The other part of the issue is you cannot even solo defeat the folder group track. That is not what I want to accomplish, just a circumstance of the issue. My ultimate goal would be to let the solo defeated Bass 2 track through, while still applying mute to every other bass under the bass pre-group folder. I hope that makes sense.
Yes, that makes sense. Indeed, in this case you’d have to establish a different track organization unless there’s an option to let Solo Defeat rule over group track muting.
Maybe re-tag your thread as a feature request?
It’s frustrating, it seems like Steinberg released folder group tracks that are not very well thought out.
Cubase 15 Manual:
In Solo Defeat mode, the channel is not muted when you solo another channel.
This functionality is undoubtedly working, as the very track set to Defeat is actually not muted. However, the muting occurs in the downstream folder&group track, which is not set to Defeat.
However: Cubase does not support activating Defeat on folder&group tracks (while it does on group-only tracks)!
This support would be necessary, however, to route the signal through the folder&group track and thus make it audible.
Conclusion: The ability to set a folder&group track to Defeat (just like a group-only track) may be a desirable and useful feature. It would also resolve the confusing inconsistency between the two track types.
Yes, that is my point, we should be able to set solo defeat on a folder group track as well as a track within the group folder otherwise it is only half of a solution. It must also be programmed to respect the other tracks that are muted in the folder group track, otherwise it would be exactly the same as a normal group track.
Well, that would go beyond simply aligning the group-only and the folder&group types. I think it would be most practical if both types worked the same way regarding the group function. The only difference would be that the folder&group type would additionally provide the folder container, that bundles individual tracks together.
From that perspective, I’d consider a group track with an optional folder function to be the best solution.
I think all anybody ever wanted was a collapsible folder that is visible and works not only in the project window, but also in the mix console window. Steinberg has again made things more complicated than they needed to be.
I used Solo Defeat a lot in Pro Tools, but never felt the need to in Cubase. I absolutely see it being useful in certain situations. Inconsistent behavior between group tracks and group+folder is definitely confusing.
What really bugs me about group+folder tracks though is how they invert the usual top to bottom (project window) / left to right (mixconsole window) signal flow. I (as most people, I assume) always placed my groups to the right of the channels being routed to them, my busses to the right side of my mixer, input channels to the left, output channels to the right. Of course, it made sense a folder unfolding top to bottom too. Group+folder tracks make a lot of sense as a concept, but implementing them the right way seems kinda tricky.
I used Reaper for a while and I think it managed routing and visualization of tracks in a similar fashion (showing tracks at different levels depending on their routing), but I can’t recall if it felt more straight-forward than in Cubase. I think Studio One does something similar too. I’m sure Steinberg is aware of every other DAW’s features and tries to take the good ideas out there to Cubase (fortunately!).
Well said. In my opinion, a folder track should be above the individual tracks; having it below would be pretty weird. A group track, on the other hand, feels better to me below or to the right (in the mixer) of the summed channels, but whatever, group tracks can be moved freely anyway. So far, so good…
But now, with the combination of both track types into the folder&group type, a positioning conflict arises. Personally, I find folders below more confusing than groups above, but that’s a matter of opinion. Ultimately, this problem could probably only be solved with an option in the preferences (or always folder&group tracks in the track list above and in the mixer to the right).