Bug report: frames lose position, size and text adjustment in templates

There are some problems with some frames in master pages when saving a file as a template.

The following is how it should look in a template I have.

HOW I SET IT:

“Default full score”, “First” master page, top:

“Default full score”, “Default” master page, bottom

“Default part”, “Default” master page, top:

image

HOW IT LOOKS AFTER USING THE TEMPLATE FOR A NEW CHART

“Default full score”, “First” master page, top:

“Default full score”, “Default” master page, bottom:

“Default part”, “Default” master page, top:

image

Not all frames behaves this way. In my template there seems to be these two frames (projectSubtitle and projectCopyright) losing some of its properties:

  • Text alignment
  • Frame size
  • Frame position

Exactly what happens when adjusting and trying again is not fully consistent. Sometimes a text adjustment has been lost in another version of the master page than outlined here, sometimes the frames are not staying on the page (until now one of the edges has been there so that I can catch it, set the right size and reposition).

Not a big thing, this can be fixed manually in a new chart. But should be fixed.

I don’t think that I can reproduce. Can you upload your files? It’s very confusing to understand from the screenshots and descriptions.

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Of course. Do you want a template (not sure where they are stored) or a file that has been created using the template? Where should I upload it?

And to clarify what you see:
Case 1: “projectSubtitle” has been expanded so that the text is now placed way too low (actually in the score)
Case 2: “projectCopyright” that should be centered became left adjusted
Case 3: page numbering that should be right adjusted became left adjusted

Every time I fix these problems in a file, save it as a template and use the template something in this way happens.

I think we’d need before and after files.

Or at least a “before” file and some steps to reproduce the issue etc. if that make sense?

Here are some known things:

  1. Text property overrides are lost when using a template: When using text frames in a template, do not override the text properties (alignment, size etc.). Build the Paragraph Styles correctly and then mix and match Paragraph Styles as necessary.
  2. When setting up text frames, constrict them (padlocks in the left panel of the page template editor) to one vertical and one horizontal, e.g. top and left, top and right, bottom and left, bottom and right, then set their width and height explicitly. If you leave them constricted to all four sides, any change in page size will distort the dimensions of the frame.

To my mind, 1. is a long standing bug. 2. is just how frames work.

I’m not sure which of your complaints I haven’t covered, @dan.h.tillberg but hopefully these cover most of it.

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Ok, @DanielMuzMurray and @pianoleo

I have now on “before” file, one file based on the template created from the “before” file and a document describing the settings I made, the settings that were changed and what I did in between.

3 files. Where should I upload them?

You can upload them to your next reply, though I won’t be much help today - my computer isn’t to hand. Having reread your OP a couple of times, I’m reasonably sure my previous message covered the issues, though.

It is no hurry to get help today. What I rapport can be fixed in a new chart in 5 minutes and the small irritation of making the corrections and get new deviations is soon gone when starting to write music :slight_smile: This is only if you want to get reports of bugs or suspected bugs.
CorrectSettings_20240106_1.dorico (2.0 MB)
SettingsAfterNewFromTemplate_20240106_1.dorico (2.3 MB)
DTFrameInconsistenciesReport_v1.pdf (179.7 KB)

I think @pianoleo basically covered it. If I look in your “CorrectSettings” file, I see your Title is set like this …

… but your “Title” Paragraph Style is set to this:

You’ve created an override to the Title style in the text editor. That works fine within a project, but that info is not retained in the template, just the Paragraph Style. Whether that’s a bug or just a lack of functionality, you’ll need to make the changes in the Paragraph Style, not the text editor, if you want those retained in the template.

You have quite a few frames where all four locks are selected:

Generally, I find that’s not a desirable way to work for the reasons Leo mentioned above. If you deselect one or more of them, then you’ll get the height and/or width checkboxes to enter a set height or width.

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Ok if I have frames with all four locks selected, wouldn’t this be even more “certain” that these should not be changed by the program when saving as a template? Then one you pointed out is one of those that I need to readjust every time.

Generally, said, frames are moving in various directions when saving as template…and you mean this is by design?

Btw, the title is obviously retained in the template. This is not a problem.

The problems are moving frames and moving horizontal text adjustments (in other frames than the title frame). This is carefully described in the pdf I attached.

No, locking means that it’s attached to the page margin by a fixed distance.

If you had a text frame locked on all 4 sides and you changed the page size, the frame would resize to follow all 4 page margins. This sometimes creates odd results.

Instead, often you want to lock to two sides, and unlock the other two. Then you set height and width.

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Go to the score layouts in both files.
Open the First page template in the Page Template editor.
You will see that the size and shape of the frames are consistent across the two files.

Now go to a part layout in both files.
Open the First page template in the Page Template editor.
You will see that the size and shape of the frames are consistent across the two files.

Various frames are constrained to all four sides, meaning that they cannot possibly maintain their dimensions if you use these templates across multiple page sizes.

This isn’t a bug; it’s working as designed. See the documentation here: Frame constraints

If you want to use the same page template across multiple page sizes you really need to heed the advice I gave earlier: constrain to only the relevant sides. In the case of the Subtitle Frame, you want to lock it to three sides: top, left and right, and then use a Paragraph Style that is set, in Library > Paragraph Styles, to be centre aligned.

Alternatively, set up one Page Template Set for Parts and another for Scores, just as any default Dorico project does.

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I saw your comment earlier about different page sizes and I know that this does not apply to this case since all pages have the same size. I only use one page size for chart like these and I can’t imagine this would change.

Why is this coming back in the comments? Or do I have different page sizes without knowing it?

You’re using A4 for the parts and A3 for the score, in both files.

Aha, ok yep I see that now, I was not aware of that, and there is no reason to be that way, can’t remember I have set it so. Anyway, I’ll change it and see what happens.

What about the change in horizontal text adjustments? What can I do to be able to define this once and for all, save as a template and it is retained for new charts?

As I said above:

I suppose I could clarify that further: some property overrides are lost when using a template.

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Do I understand it correctly: to work in a template, each and every text must be defined in terms of an own paragraph style?

Correct. Well, not exactly - e.g. if you happened to want both your subtitle and your copyright centred, with the same font at the same size, they could use the same Paragraph Style.

The only alternative is to ignore the Hub functionality - it’s this that causes problems with template text properties being ditched. If you start new projects from File > New From Project Template you’ll get precisely what you Saved as Project Template.

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