Bulletproof ASIO-Guard - Is this what I've been waiting for?

[Sound_Temple_Studios]

@Sound_Temple_Studios

@Helge Vogt

@lights

I am so confused as to why this helps “especially on the Mac side”. Can someone from Steinberg clarify that?

It is because OS X is lacking in terms of realtime audio performance due to a lets say different threading model. That’s the reason why PCs are performing much better with lower latencies. However, the result is that ASIO Guard improves the performance under OS X heavily.

Cheers,
Helge

So would would it improve performance when you are tracking 24 tracks with (with no or very few plugins running) No playback tracks vs 6.53 yielding lower latencies or would one only see a difference when mixing playback and record tracks? This is the big question for me.

Bump

[steveschizoid]

Helge, will this reduce the likelihood of cpu overload errors while real time rendering?

It seems to me that glitches and overloads have been an ever increasing problem since I moved (from XP) to Windows 7. I use a lot of external plug and UAD plugins; I’ve often wondered if the situation will improve when UAD finally moves to 64 bit…

[UnderTow]

@lights

I am so confused as to why this helps “especially on the Mac side”. Can someone from Steinberg clarify that?

I’m not from Steinberg but the graphs on these pages say it all:

http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-6.htm
http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-5.htm

In short, OSX is not a very good OS for audio. (And it isn’t because of Cubase!)

Alistair

[Pete]

@UnderTow

@lights

I am so confused as to why this helps “especially on the Mac side”. Can someone from Steinberg clarify that?

I’m not from Steinberg but the graphs on these pages say it all:

http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-6.htm
http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-5.htm

In short, OSX is not a very good OS for audio. (And it isn’t because of Cubase!)

Alistair

I’m not from Steinberg either… the graphs says that Kontakt sux.
For the best low latency performance use Logic and EXS24 in OSX

[UnderTow]

@Pete

I’m not from Steinberg either… the graphs says that Kontakt sux.

There are multiple graphs with multiple plugins and multiple DAWs being tested. All show exactly the same thing: OSX is not a good OS for audio. Steinberg have confirmed this right here in this thread:

@Helge Vogt

It is because OS X is lacking in terms of realtime audio performance due to a lets say different threading model. That’s the reason why PCs are performing much better with lower latencies.

Anyway, we are off-topic. I just wanted to give some background info for the people that were asking why Steinberg mention that the new ASIO Guard would help so much for Cubase on OSX.

Alistair

[Pete]

@UnderTow

@Pete

Anyway, we are off-topic. I just wanted to give some background info for the people that were asking why Steinberg mention that the new ASIO Guard would help so much for Cubase on OSX.

Alistair

Nihilominus - for the best low latency performance use Logic and EXS24 in OSX

Would be great if ASIO Guard makes Cubase match Logic.

[Carlo]

@Helge Vogt

However, the result is that ASIO Guard improves the performance under OS X heavily.

Cheers,
Helge

Excellent !!!

[arvfur]

All good, no drawbacks?
What about real time recording of mutes/automation to the tracks NOT having the low buffer?
2056 samples is 46.621 ms in 44.1kHz. You certainly can feel that…sluggish faders and mutes perhaps.
When you click a mute button the screen on a non-compensated track, won’t the click be registered/performed 50ms later in such a scenario?

[Arjan_P]

@arvfur

When you click a mute button the screen on a non-compensated track, won’t the click be registered/performed 50ms later in such a scenario?

There’s no reason to assume that the audio buffer automatically also means control buffer.

[UnderTow]

@Arjan P

@arvfur

When you click a mute button the screen on a non-compensated track, won’t the click be registered/performed 50ms later in such a scenario?

There’s no reason to assume that the audio buffer automatically also means control buffer.

If there is an audio buffer by definition anything you do to the audio, like muting a track, will happen with the latency caused by the buffer. It is impossible to do anything else. The audio that you are trying to manipulate is already in that buffer. Also, what you are hearing is late compared to where the play head is in the DAW so the automation is written with that same latency.

Alistair

[arvfur]

Thank you for enlightening me, Alistair!
I knew there had to be a trade off…perhaps that’s why writing realtime automation in Logic often feels sluggish compared to Cubase?
Well, it seems we can turn this feature on or off, so we still have the choice.

[jpgtr]

@arvfur

Tperhaps that’s why writing realtime automation in Logic often feels sluggish compared to Cubase?

Doubtful. Why don’t you wait a week and see how it goes before jumping to any conclusions.

[UnderTow]

@arvfur

I knew there had to be a trade off…perhaps that’s why writing realtime automation in Logic often feels sluggish compared to Cubase?

I don’t know about Logic but if I have my latency set any higher than 10 or 12 ms in Cubase or Pro Tools (which effectively is a bit more than that), the fader/knob automation I write in realtime from a control surface will feel and be late.

Well, it seems we can turn this feature on or off, so we still have the choice.

I am guessing we will be able to put the tracks we want to automate in monitoring mode and have the low-latency response for those tracks. Of course you can’t do that with all tracks or it defeats the purpose of the ASIO Guard but still, it should help and as you say, we can always turn it off if it doesn’t suit what we are doing.

I’m looking forward to testing this.

Alistair

[cmaffia]

If one has a powerful enough machine as it is using 6.5.3 and has never experienced dropouts or latency issues before, what other performance enhancements would ASIO-Guard offer those users?

Thanks

[jpgtr]

@cmaffia

If one has a powerful enough machine as it is using 6.5.3 and has never experienced dropouts or latency issues before, what other performance enhancements would ASIO-Guard offer those users?

Thanks

I’m guessing the enhancements are primarily aimed at mac users, who have painfully endured sub-par low-latency performance on Cubase for years…

[UnderTow]

@jpgtr

I’m guessing the enhancements are primarily aimed at mac users, who have painfully endured sub-par low-latency performance on Cubase for years…

That might be true but people like me with large projects that want to play a VST live with low latency will also benefit on Windows I am guessing.

Alistair

[JMCecil]

@UnderTow

@jpgtr

I’m guessing the enhancements are primarily aimed at mac users, who have painfully endured sub-par low-latency performance on Cubase for years…

That might be true but people like me with large projects that want to play a VST live with low latency will also benefit on Windows I am guessing.

Alistair

I’ll be interested if I can track keys on a large project at 32 buffers. That would rock.

[steveschizoid]

I am hoping I can mix large projects with plenty of external inserts and UAD plugs and NEVER have to see another cpu overload error when I try to export the mix…which sometimes occurs even when the asio meter shows less than 25%!

This alone would be worth the price of the upgrade to me.

[SpiderFinger]

For this feature, I will upgrade. It’s a shame that they don’t make it retro-active to v6.5 so that we can test it to assure ourselves that it does what we anticipate. CS.

[Arjan_P]

@UnderTow

@Arjan P

@arvfur

When you click a mute button the screen on a non-compensated track, won’t the click be registered/performed 50ms later in such a scenario?

There’s no reason to assume that the audio buffer automatically also means control buffer.

If there is an audio buffer by definition anything you do to the audio, like muting a track, will happen with the latency caused by the buffer. It is impossible to do anything else.

I would agree with you if this was about the audio interface buffer. However, the Bulletproof ASIO Guard is a different kind of buffer, acting ‘behind the scenes’. So until we see the release of C7, I think any assumptions about control delay cannot be substanciated.