Hi
Doing a new template…setting up the gain staging…not sure why I didnt notice this before or if something has changed since v9 but
I create test gen with -18 sine on a stereo source track, project pan law is 6db so its mono compliant for setup
I direct route to another stereo group but why does the output now say -21?
Sum/on/off makes no diff
Why does this not happen on Live or reaper? Why is there often so many hidden quirks…it cant be that hard to do basic calibration right? Im not sure what Im missing…perhaps something dumb but never had the issue before. The template I was using was an old one and I def dont recall this happening
I’m too tired to think straight right now, but a few things to keep in mind;
The behavior is not necessarily consistent between having a first direct output (same as the “normal” first output routing) that is mono and then having direct outs after that have more channels, and on the other hand having a wider channel count first. The manual states to always use the widest channel count first, and smaller later.
What is your metering set to? If it is pre-panner it can read something different from post-panner (it would be better if you took screenshots where the meter shows the values you’re talking about).
The Direct Outs do not take pan-law into account, except for the first slot (!), as far as I remember. Why? No idea.
Your first channel with signal in the first image shows a mono signal - I’m afraid I’m not understanding what I’m looking at. Could you make things easier to follow, by stating what each stage is (mono or stereo), what the value is and what the destination is?
Yep I get that and understand Cubase has to do something with mono/stereo choices…but this is using the onboard testgen tool provided in cubase and a stereo > stereo exit/entry…the metering is removed by bypassing the panner for the test
Just because you can’t pan doesn’t mean that the underlying level change is disabled. Your track may be stereo, but your first output is to a mono destination, and therefore pan-law applies.
But something looks off on your screenshots though. “Body>SG” seems to have a meter settling below -18 whereas the source, “Bass DI” is at -18. Did you make sure to click on the number to reset? I’d expect “Body>SG” to read -21.
I think it might actually be stereo>mono>stereo, because of that first slot. That’s the problem.
No its all stereo, the testgen gives no options and is likely mono of course another story. I might try fitting 2 gens and assigning them in mono to be sure?
Ill try a diff perspective in a new project but it regardless of the input signal, it is def all stereo path.
I redid everything and it seems you were on the money
I was so focused on the actual bussing and didnt even look at the dialog title (although on 4k its a bit tiny)
Even though I was using the 2nd slot of my send, the first slot was originally sent to mono and this seems to dictate what happens to the rest after that point.
I reconstructed exactly the same no only 1 buss send directly to stereo and working ok…so its quirky like I said, it shouldnt care what I have selected before or after? Hard thing is using a number of DAWs for diff clients…even PT doesnt do this (although Im at the end of using it…cant deal anymore -)
Of all the things Steiny keep adding…a rework and modular routing of the mixer is miles above any other request
Great catch, @MattiasNYC @Aurasphere Would you mind to mark Matthias’s post as solution, please?
And just out of curiosity - why did you thank Mattias in German… ?
Hi @Reco29
Sorry, I did actually press the solution box…but it didnt tick on my other computer…it does on this one.
I thanked in German because I thought Mattias was actually German…although Im not actually sure why?
Ich bin in Sydney geboren, aber meine Eltern stammen beide aus Hamburg, und obwohl sie mir die Sprache nicht beigebracht haben, habe ich als Kind Urlaub in Deutschland gemacht und dort in 3 Monaten Deutsch gelernt (tatsächlich habe ich mein Englisch wieder vergessen, sehr zum Erstaunen meines Vaters, als ich nach Australien zurückkehrte). Ich kann gut verstehen aber schreiben?…lol
I think there was an explanation given at some point in time, like 5-10 years ago. I had asked about this as well because I thought it was odd that the slots would function differently. The answer was something about the predictability of the creation of (true) stems or whatever.
Perhaps the best way to think about it is to ask the question “How should this work?” while taking into account that a person might change the path configuration for that first slot. Should all slots be independent? Or should they be treated as intended for the creation of stems that “sound the same”?
On the one hand, getting the same measurement might be valuable, but that’s just a number and the question is what value it has in real life. One alternative is to use Constant/Equal power instead. Now it sounds the same in more environments, despite measuring differently.
In my templates I use “Equal Power” as pan law because that corresponds to the rest of the direct out slots’ behavior, and because I felt that when mixing in stereo and surround this yielded mixes that felt almost exactly the same. In other words my template is set up so that all sources eventually feed into a set of 5.1 groups (narration, dialog, music, fx etc.) and that is technically the “main” mix, but when I deliver stereo mixes it is all downmixed automatically from there and I don’t need to change anything to make that happen. Having consistent behavior for slot 1 makes sense in my case.
Well I get it when u put in context but I could not see the rule in the manual…so once we know
This is where contextual help in 3 levels would be great. I’ve mentioned previously but 1) tooltips are good as a nudge and a 2) right click/that explains caveats in point form…in this instance and finally 3) another item that jumps you to the manual (as per architecture sw I mentioned)
The point about a rework for mixer this is probs moot because a better help system would have saved a lot of time and frustration (for all of us except Matthias…let’s not deny therapeutic flattery…he deserves it)
It’s more about how elegant and simplifying modular routing is…I’m not using Reaper atm but I’ve constructed solutions, even just ifx on send signals…wow (surround handling is pretty awkward though…so not yet)
?