replacing the tied 16ths by a single sixteenth and removing the articulation dot is an option nut not my desired notation style. Besides, there’s hundreds of bars like this in the piece! Another day’s work
nope , no news. I tried your score, but can’t get it right either.
a few score editor improvements have been made in the latest (0.21) update, but some of the promised improvements have to wait until the next update I suppose. Don’t think it’ll address this problem though.
strangely everything seems to be correctly set (no breaks at half bar boundaries) so this should come out right according to the rules.
Just seeing this now. Dorico (and the Cubase score editor too) follows the rules from Elaine Gould’s notation manual “Behind Bars” exactly.
Pg. 168 - “Compound-time metres must show at least two out of three subdivisions of the beat”
Of course there is an exception that Gould states on the very next page regarding syncopation where you’re trying to suggest a different grouping, which you could argue should apply here, but it has no way of knowing that is the case.
I do understand why you want to do it that way because it repeats so much that it looks unnecessarily fussy to keep repeating it that way. In Dorico you can address this by using a function called force duration which lets you hard set the duration, but this is not (yet) available in Cubase Score Editor.
I believe you can probably get this though by overriding the click pattern which lets you control the grouping.
Yes it does, it influences how it divides/subdivides the beat. You can override the pattern as an advanced setting under the time signature in the time signature track in the main Cubase window.
It is also an option in Dorico, under the time signature you have control how it subdivides. In Dorico with your specific example I would not normally use this scenario and would normally use “force duration”, but that is not an option (yet) under Cubase Score Editor, you can try that pattern method. The only thing I would worry about is it potentially causing other parts happening at the same time to not be shown as you would want - so it might fix the problem but start showing your other parts wrong because it is a global setting. In Dorico there is less chance of this because you can have a local time signature that applies only to that staff but I think in Cubase there is just the single global signature.
I’ve tried a simpler pattern, since mine is a bit complex. Nothing much happening though, maybe I’m looking in the wrong place? Here I try to show the second chord also as dotted quarter notes. None of the settings in Instrument settings do much.
I use the click pattern as shown in the picture, but see nothing about ‘advanced settings’ or overriding click patterns.
not the most elegant of solutions, but it does work! If there would be a way to hide the signature in the score I’ld be happy enough. Seemingly not possible.
Since I move everything into Sibelius from Cubase I can hide the signature there. Just something to keep an eye on.
Now I will try to get the score at the top of this topic look good.
Hi, sorry, I had forgotten this quietly changed in a Cubase 15 update. It used to be that the click pattern affected it because this is the way old Cubase versions did it too (both 14 and 13 and earlier, as well as the release version of Cubase 15). Since the 15.0.10 update for Cubase 15 it has moved to a separate function, which is better.
The click pattern also affected the grouping in Cubase 13 and earlier (there was a preference that allowed you to to turn this on/off in Cubase 13). In Cubase 14 they decided to keep this old functionality the way it was and use the click patterns for this, but people did not like this even though it was what Cubase did before (in 13 and earlier), so in 15.0.10 they changed it to its own separate setting under the time signature.
I had to look for it, but now I see you have to select the time signature and then the beat groups come up. Better again! Since it’s indeed a global setting I’ll see how far it gets me, but by inserting another 4/4 I can give that another grouping again. Pity you then can’t hide the 4/4. Maybe also good for you @Buer and @oove999
In Dorico you can, and you can also give local time signatures to staves to override the global one, so one staff can have a different time signature than the rest (or the same time signature with a different grouping).
I’m not sure if either of these functions will make it to Cubase Score Editor. I only mention that Dorico can do this because at least it brings it into the realm of possibility that Cubase could potentially add this too, while it would be much more dificult if Dorico couldn’t do this at all.
Furthermore, it wasn’t possible to create a quarter note with a dot using an existing event (regardless of the quantization setting); even with the full MIDI length, it resulted in a quarter note with an eighth rest.
well, I found that makes a difference if you enter notes with the mouse, or record them using a midi keyboard. Strangely. In the latter case you have more control over what the note looks like in the score. Length quantization/quantizing endings and such the work as expected, but they don’t work if you entered notes with the mouse, and you may see different note lengths in key editor and score editor, like in your picture.
I don’t see the staccato dot in the other picture?
I never enter notes with the mouse, it doesn’t work well if you want to change anything about them.
don’t forget that you can enter a new time signature in the next bar with it’s own beat grouping. (will show extra 4/4’s, alas)
Yes, true, results can be very unexpected and strange, a lot of workarounds needed!
There is a difference, yes. When a note is entered into the score editor manually with the mouse, Cubase treats the note as entered with the mouse as a source of truth and allows you to vary the actual note start and end much more significantly without the note being reinterpreted. These notes have a special hidden field which sets the actual duration of the note as notated, and this setting overrides the display quantize. When the note is created by clicking with the mouse in the score, it knows that the duration you’ve chosen is the one you want it to appear as. So then for any changes you make in the piano roll later to these notes (without deleting them), it keeps the note value the same and treats it as you just moving the start and end point for sonic reasons (ex. to humanize it, or to manually compensate for delay).
When creating notes in the piano roll on the other hand (with either the mouse or midi keyboard), it doesn’t set this field under the note, so it has no set length and then the display quantize has to figure out how long it should appear as, but it is a dynamic guess which can change as you adjust the length of the note.
One reason the entering them with the mouse in notation does a “hard set” like this is because there are many situations involving things like complicated tuplets that it might be difficult for the display quantize algorithm to work out on its own just from looking where the notes fall, because with more complicated tuplets like that it can be harder to distinguish between timing errors in performance and an actual intentional tuplet. So in case there are issues here, they can get the user to delete the notes of the misdetected tuplet and re-enter them with the mouse as a workaround, because that will be guaranteed to stick.
The other reason is when you import Dorico scores into Cubase, which is a common workflow for people to enhance their mockups, the notation as it was done in Dorico is a trusted truth and you want to be able to adjust the note start and end without altering that notation as the user made it in Dorico.
thank you for your explanation! I wish someone had pointed this out months ago when I started with C15, coming from C13, and had awful fights with the score editor. I found this out (mouse input vs midi input) by trial and error. Really, it has cost me a lot of valuable time!
‘hidden fields’, well…
Slowly getting to grips with it. I know Cubase is not notation software anyway (I use Sibelius for that), but it’s a pity that the drum editor and keyroll editor are very versatele for moving/editing/pasting notes, where the score editor is rather limited. I’ve been reading music since the age of 6, and it’s the way to go for me!
I should clarify, it isn’t necessarily that they are purposely hiding things/fields, and I don’t mean to imply that. It stands to reason that some data would be stored on the “Dorico” side (Cubase Score Editor side) and other data on the “Cubase” side (all of it saved in the Cubase project file, presumably with the Dorico data saved in some kind of blob contained within the project file). Not everything on the Dorico side is necessarily exposed and visible to Cubase in the main Cubase UI. So the field in question may simply not be exposed (yet) to the Cubase side and only exists on the Dorico side.
