I’d LOVE to get my VCAs working, however when I put any type of automation on it, it automatically remixes my track!! all VCA levels start at +6 (max level) then fade down to the first automation point. The last one I tried put ALL my channels at 0Db and I had to start the mix again from an older project - all this stuff takes up so much time.
Anyone successful with this VCA stuff?
In my template all tracks that are controlled by VCAs and the VCA tracks themselves have a volume node on the automation lane at unity. All of them. That is the default when I start any mix.
This seems to work.
Yes, creating initial parameters is the way to go.
Then everything works proprely.
Fredo
Thanks for that! However I have tried that (putting in a 0 automation point before the song starts) but if I re visit the project down the line (weeks or Months) those 0 points are up at +6 and they ramp down to the first automation point? There only seems to be a problem when I automate the VCA otherwise it’s not so bad!
I think you’re missing something then, because I’ve never had that happen.
Be sure to put that automation point on all relevant tracks, controlled tracks and VCA tracks, before you start your work.
No Virgin Territory in Automation settings, and Create Initial Parameters before you start mixing (this is in the Automation / function menu)
Maybe they should just make Nuendo create that initial parameter point anytime you write automation for the first time in a track, either by drawing points or recording.
It is such a pain in the ass to move an automation poit by mistake and having no way to undo that. My templates have them in all busses, but if I leave lane open in a track that I haven’t automated yet and click-drag it by mistake I can only pray that it wasn’t a terribly delicate balance that I just messed up.
It is a value change that bizarrely creates no record in neither edit or mixer histories. Or perhaps they should just fix this and make the value change be recorded in the mixer, so you can put the parameter back where it was when you undo the new automation point.
The issue is that this would break “Virgin Territory”.
Sure, there must be a solution somewhere…
Fredo
That is a good point I hadn’t considered. But if I’m not mistaken, doesn’t the need of creating that point manually already negates the use of virgin territory anyways?
If the only present solution is to always create those points, the faders will then be locked to automation anyways…
Perhaps a compromise could be having an option in prefs where you can choose to enable the automatic creation of those points if you want to?
I for one don’t care much about virgin territories and would definitely have that enabled.
It used to be a confirmed issue, until “adding an volume automation node at the starting point of every track under VCAs” is no longer a work-around. This becomes the right way to use a VCA track.
It was not a must several years ago. But I think we need to accept it.
It’s a user choice.
When using Virgin Territories → no initial parameters should be written.
When switching to (or working in) “regular” automation mode → initial parameters must be written.
When using Virgin Territories, outside of the automation that has already been written, the fader can be at any position and should not snap back to any value. It only snaps back once playback reaches written automation data. In between those points, the fader can be anywhere.
As a result, VCAs also don’t have a “baseline” value to refer to.
The idea was that users who started mixing with Virgin Territories would eventually “connect the empty spaces” within the automation, and from that point onward start using VCAs.
And anyone mixing in regular mode, will be creating initial parameters.
And there are a gazillion of good reasons for that.
Though, I admit it was confusing.
Fredo
No, it snaps to any previous automation point’s value once you locate on the timeline, i.e. once you either press stop or click on the grid to locate. If you are before the first written automation it will read “unity” as long as automation exists after where you located. So, it does snap. I’ve complained about this before.
Also, it seems to me that the system again is either broken or designed in a way that is completely counterintuitive. Here’s me writing a dip on the audio track which is connected to a VCA:
The great thing is that it reminds me of some sort of 80’s video game art or something.
The bad thing is that touch failed.
The truly awful thing is that we can complain about these things and mark our threads “issue” and we virtually never hear back from Steinberg about it. In fact, back in the day when I complained about VCAs being broken in their first iteration I finally received word on a different forum that the official position was that they were done with VCAs. They had fixed enough and were moving on. That was after me moaning about it relentlessly for months. They fixed some of it and then that was it.
So anyone being confused or who want this to be different is just wasting their time here. And I could go on about other issues with the automation system. It’s a sub-par implementation far inferior to what Pro Tools offers, and Steinberg seem to be absolutely fine with that.
There are way too many different and conflicting instructions about VCA faders and how they should/could be used. Cubase has not even a feature to set automation nodes at the start.
The forum shows literally hundreds of post asking for direction, a statement whether or not VCAs will ever be fixed or if Steinberg could at least provide some sort of proper documentation.
Nothing, for years now. Not a clever marketing strategy, especially in times of ChatGPT.
All I can say is that as long as you stay away from virgin territory and put automation nodes on your tracks in your template before you start working VCAs will work pretty predictably.
Outside of that however…
I complained about it since Cubase 8 or 8.5, at that time it was realized as a bug. However I also figured out It’s not easy to fix if we cannot find a right way for VCA memories the 1st position before affecting the tracks. Remember the traditional VCA method, all the tracks’s fader didn’t follow VCA track as we can see now, and it din’t create any automation line for every track after we remove VCA track.
So I just suggest we can add an option for user to use a traditional VCA as an option.
I rejected to use VCA with automation to keep out of accident. But yes, I miss our old traditional VCA.
WARNING: The usage of VCA in Nuendo or Cubase can lead to a loss of “total recall” of your project!
Had to use VCAs on mix yesterday to automate everything in a fade-out. Master VCA had initial point written but connected tracks didn’t necessarily have initial data written (only things that needed automation had automation on the track).
Recalling the mix this morning and the whole mix was completely FUBAR as I guess I must have saved the session when the VCA was mid fade-out. Balance was wildly off, no way of knowing what my balance positions were so I ended up having to redo half the mix.
A known issue but holy #$)% these VCAs…
There are other pitfalls as well (see comments above). It’s not just about initiating nodes and staying off of virgin territory. I have ruined my mixes one time too many because of VCAs.
As long as Steinberg can’t be bothered to look into VCAs and write up a documentation that deserves to be called documentation/manual I am out.
Would you mind sharing what caused it if it’s a technical issue?
@MattiasNYC I would like to but I’m afraid that ship has sailed. It’s been a while since I used VCAs due to its rather unpredictable shortcomings. My best bet is that I saved the project with the cursor at the wrong position or I forgot to set a node somewhere. Anyhow, I had to redo the mix and stayed off of VCAs ever since. Finding the correct project file that led to this would be a Hercules task.
