Can Cues be written in C in transposing staff?

[pianoleo]

Dave, the point that you’ve maybe not understood is that, as far as Dorico’s concerned, an Ossia stave is a stave that is played by the player of the instrument that it is attached to. Why should Dorico’s developers prioritise allowing you to misuse an ossia stave for something that’s not an ossia?

There’s absolutely nothing to stop you from adding another instrument to the part layout (that doesn’t show in the score) and cueing into that, as was helpfully suggested by Rob some 36 hours ago.

[davemacdo]

@pianoleo

Dave, the point that you’ve maybe not understood is that, as far as Dorico’s concerned, an Ossia stave is a stave that is played by the player of the instrument that it is attached to. Why should Dorico’s developers prioritise allowing you to misuse an ossia stave for something that’s not an ossia?

There’s absolutely nothing to stop you from adding another instrument to the part layout (that doesn’t show in the score) and cueing into that, as was helpfully suggested by Rob some 36 hours ago.

I don’t think this is a misuse of ossias, especially since Dorico doesn’t do cutaways. Yes, I understand that the name “ossia” has a literal meaning here, and that it’s not what I’m doing. However, I would say that it’s just as much a workaround as Rob suggested. I really don’t want to gunk up my project with the extra staff, especially since it wouldn’t allow me to use the cue feature properly.

[claude_g_lapalme]

@Kim Bastin

@Claude Lapalme

Pierrot Lunaire’s clarinet part has vocal cues in C.

PL is published by Universal, and Universal’s house style requires all cues in C even today. It makes no sense to me: the player needs to be shown as clearly as possible what to listen for, and printing a cue in C when the instrument being cued is pitched in some other key adds pointless complication.

Wow! I didn’t realize they still insist on that. I know that “Die Praxis des Notengraphikers” by Herbert Chlapik (from Doblinger) also demands this. While I can see the point to an extent, I still believe it’s not good practice. I’m all for the occasional octave displacement (those high flute and violin cues in Bruckner horn parts just look weird to me), but keeping the cues transposed, at least when they are on the same staff as the player, is far preferable.

[JoshuaLuty]

I’m digging up this topic only because it’s very interesting. Universal’s style guide is slightly more complex on cues. The long-story-short is that for them cues are essentially a glimpse into the full score, regardless of what part that cue is presented in. A few examples—

Transposed Score:
Clarinet 1 in B♭ cue in Horn 1 in F part: Cue is in B♭, labeled Clarinet 1 in B♭
C Score:
Clarinet 1 in B♭ cue in Horn 1 in F part: Cue is in C, labeled simply Clarinet 1

Here’s the kicker — they have one exception!

C Score:
Horn 2 in F cue in Horn 1 in F part: Cue is in F, labeled Horn 2 in F

If that doesn’t make your head spin, I don’t know what will! Think of the poor Horn player, juggling their C basso, B♭ basso, A♭ alto, G, and E♭ transpositions, then immediately prior to their entrance in that dreaded D♭ transposition they have a Clarinet cue transposed in B♭! Game over.

I will say there’s more precedent to this practice than Universal alone though, as a good deal of Wagner’s operas published originally by Schott employ this system, but for all my studying of parts, I have to say this cue system is in the extreme minority and I can think of no worse system.