Can Mac users who were having GUI issues before please comment on 9.5?

[adc]

@Fabio Bartolini

Just chiming in to confirm here as well that the work on this is ongoing and that some other improvements were ready before the release, but didn’t make it in time for 9.5.0.
The work done in this regard was huge, not only with actually improving GUI performance and fixing issues, but also with analysis and research.
We do believe all spots have been identified, but it was not possible to fit all in, as it is often the case you actually have to wait until another work is done and well tested before proceeding.

So yes, improvements ongoing and some more coming soon

Hi Fabio,

Can you tell us a little bit about what it exactly was that needed fixing? Was it something Apple changed in OSX or were the issues more related to the Cubase code itself? If you don’t have time to explain all this, thats perfectly fine, I’m just interested in this stuff, that’s all

Thanks.

[Kip]

Glad to know more improvments are coming Fabio. 9.5 has got me back working with Cubase on Mac at last and a step in the right direction. Good job!

[Steinberg_Archived]

@tmtm

Hi Fabio,

Can you tell us a little bit about what it exactly was that needed fixing? Was it something Apple changed in OSX or were the issues more related to the Cubase code itself? If you don’t have time to explain all this, thats perfectly fine, I’m just interested in this stuff, that’s all

Thanks.

I actually don’t know how deep I can delve this, I could fill a hundred pages and still I’m pretty sure I know only a little… Is it good enough to say ‘a bit of everything’?

More seriously and being very brief, Pro 9 introduced some inefficiencies that caused excessive redrawing and UI refresh (MixConsole, Events high-light, waveforms) and needed correction. These affected Windows too, although less common in general and in fact not noticeable on most systems.
Said inefficiencies did not justify the slowness some Mac users reported (and I saw quite a few of these remotely). Something in OS X indeed changed too, we curiously have several reports of C9 running fine on the same Macs and 10.9, which is not even supported, but I can’t say we found anything ‘wrong’ in OS X, too. Almost esoteric. It is still unclear why it was so severe on some systems.

The bright side is that this triggered extensive research,implementing a new framework, improvements and fixes and there’s a lot of stuff done and ready for testing.

I’ll add some links to more detailed discussions on the forum (apart from the ‘big sticky thread’, which I’m sure you’re familiar with), a few aspects mentioned above have actually been discussed at length.

@James, Evertone, In_Stereo: thanks a lot, that’s great to read.

[adc]

@Fabio Bartolini

@tmtm

Hi Fabio,

Can you tell us a little bit about what it exactly was that needed fixing? Was it something Apple changed in OSX or were the issues more related to the Cubase code itself? If you don’t have time to explain all this, thats perfectly fine, I’m just interested in this stuff, that’s all

Thanks.

I actually don’t know how deep I can delve this, I could fill a hundred pages and still I’m pretty sure I know only a little… Is it good enough to say ‘a bit of everything’?

More seriously and being very brief, Pro 9 introduced some inefficiencies that caused excessive redrawing and UI refresh (MixConsole, Events high-light, waveforms) and needed correction. These affected Windows too, although less common in general and in fact not noticeable on most systems.
Said inefficiencies did not justify the slowness some Mac users reported (and I saw quite a few of these remotely). Something in OS X indeed changed too, we curiously have several reports of C9 running fine on the same Macs and 10.9, which is not even supported, but I can’t say we found anything ‘wrong’ in OS X, too. Almost esoteric. It is still unclear why it was so severe on some systems.

The bright side is that this triggered extensive research,implementing a new framework, improvements and fixes and there’s a lot of stuff done and ready for testing.

I’ll add some links to more detailed discussions on the forum (apart from the ‘big sticky thread’, which I’m sure you’re familiar with), a few aspects mentioned above have actually been discussed at length.

@James, Evertone, In_Stereo: thanks a lot, that’s great to read.

Well I’m very glad this is being addressed Fabio, thanks.

[Romantique_Tp]

@Fabio Bartolini

snip

It’s great to hear that graphics performance is only going to get better. Any idea when this update might be released?

[Puma0382]

@Fabio Bartolini

Just chiming in to confirm here as well that the work on this is ongoing and that some other improvements were ready before the release, but didn’t make it in time for 9.5

So yes, improvements ongoing and some more coming soon

I’d say to pass any clues from this work on to the Dorico team too Fabio… just seen the very latest v1.2 preview video from John Barron on YT Channel. Yuk.! Still so much stuttering and juddering, and a ‘sticky’ looking UI experience there (his laptop.?). Nothing smooth and fluid and not a pleasure to witness. I’ve heard its better on Windows…

Anyway, don’t know how those folk seem to just work through it…

[d_archived]

@Romantique Tp

@Fabio Bartolini

snip

It’s great to hear that graphics performance is only going to get better. Any idea when this update might be released?

Hi - mi - tsu. ☆

[Kip]

@musicproducerunik

Sierra: Arrangement Window - slightly better on my fully spec’ed MBP 2016 Touchbar, but Mixer still extremely laggy.

It’s funny how the exact same projects run much smoother on mavericks…

I found Mavericks and Mountain Lion to have better graphic performance using version C9.0.3
but now with 9.5 it’s very close to my performance on High Sierra.

I always found Sierra to be very poor…much better on High Sierra for me.

[d_archived]

@Puma0382

I’d say to pass any clues from this work on to the Dorico team too Fabio… just seen the very latest v1.2 preview video from John Barron on YT Channel. Yuk.! Still so much stuttering and juddering, and a ‘sticky’ looking UI experience there (his laptop.?). Nothing smooth and fluid and not a pleasure to witness. I’ve heard its better on Windows…

Anyway, don’t know how those folk seem to just work through it…

Dorico is not actually like that on Mac. The stream is just captured at a low frame rate.

[kdogg456]

I have 9.5 installed on both 10.11.6 and 10.9.5 and it’s very good on both, aside from the lagginess when video thumbnails are shown on 10.11.6.

10.9.5 is insanely good, no thumbnail lag there and it’s by far the most responsive DAW out of all - comparing to PT 12.8 / Live 10 Beta / Logic Pro X 10.3.2.

[orchetect]

It’s way better now. Not perfect, but really good.

Mac Pro 6,1 2013
6-core 3.5GHz Xeon
32GB RAM
4TB internal SSD
AMD FirePro D500 (dual cards, 6GB VRAM, supports Metal)
macOS 10.13.1 High Sierra
UA Apollo over Thunderbolt

[paulpaul]

I loaded a big project that used to cause the GUI to get very laggy at times.
It’s much, much better now.

Great improvement, awesome!

[d_archived]

@orchetect

It’s way better now. Not perfect, but really good.

Mac Pro 6,1 2013
6-core 3.5GHz Xeon
32GB RAM
4TB internal SSD
AMD FirePro D500 (dual cards, 6GB VRAM, supports Metal)
macOS 10.13.1 High Sierra
UA Apollo over Thunderbolt

Is there a particular operation that is slower than it should be?

[Evertone]

Hello,

Any news on whether 9.5.20 will have further GUI improvements?

Thanks!!

[Romantique_Tp]

Fabio mentioned further performance improvements that couldn’t make it into 9.5.0 and were supposed to be in 9.5.10. I don’t remember if they were actually implemented or if they have been postponed to 9.5.20.

[In_Stereo]

@Romantique Tp

Fabio mentioned further performance improvements that couldn’t make it into 9.5.0 and were supposed to be in 9.5.10. I don’t remember if they were actually implemented or if they have been postponed to 9.5.20.

9.5 and 9.5.I are great steps in the right direction, and are significant improvements. It’s not done yet, for sure, though. I really hope there are still improvements in 9.5.20, like the laggy track scrolling in the Project Window in larger projects,the laggy mixer scrolling, and the ongoing problems with the piano roll editor being open in larger projects and causing dropouts. I was able to reproduce all of these on two other setups of composer friends, and also at Guitar Center.

[orchetect]

@In_Stereo

ongoing problems with the piano roll editor being open in larger projects and causing dropouts.

For me, playback stutters when you open or close a window (in my case, Key Editor usually) often when there’s a lot going on in a project. Anecdotally, I have a 4K (1:1 res) screen but I’m not sure it’s directly related to the large screen.

[paulpaul]

For me, the GUI problem literally disappeared with 9.5 and 9.5.1.
I usually do not work on very large projects though.
About 20-30 Audiotracks @ 24Bit 44,1 Khz, a few VSTI’s.
The GUI is responding quick and as expected, so for me (see my sig. below) everything is fine now.

[Evertone]

@Romantique Tp

Fabio mentioned further performance improvements that couldn’t make it into 9.5.0 and were supposed to be in 9.5.10. I don’t remember if they were actually implemented or if they have been postponed to 9.5.20.

I did not see any improvements with the 9.5.10 update so I’m guessing and hoping that 9.5.20 does. Still seems to be affecting users with large projects.

@In_Stereo

9.5 and 9.5.I are great steps in the right direction, and are significant improvements. It’s not done yet, for sure, though.

I concur, Steinberg did an excellent job wiping a large amount of GUI lag, but it’s not 100% gone.

[jonwright]

While the UI feels slightly more responsive than before, it’s still very volatile.

I’ll often get hard crashes when closing a plugin window, closing the MIDI editor, or even moving a note in the editor.

Sadly the autosave feature doesn’t seem to be very reliable either.

Unfortunately I’ve had to use alternative DAW’s for client work for the last few months.