Can somebody give me a convincing argument about 64 bit float?

Can somebody give me a convincing argument about 64 bit float? it really have and advantage over 32 bit float? I hear a lot about dynamic range… but… it really have an use, instead of the increase of disk space?

I see no reason for 64 bit float other than rounding accuracy and conversion efficiency in the audio pipeline. There is no way to humanly hear the difference unless you’ve stacked up a massive chain of cumulative rounding errors, and even then, it would be debatable about whether or not it is aesthetically “better” or “worse.” The point, as I understand it, is about accuracy. If you can be more accurate, why not? If you can streamline and minimize conversions, why not? So it’s not an aesthetic improvement by any human measurement though, except for the OCD mind that wants the ultimate accuracy. My opinion only. :slight_smile:

For me, I’m happy with 32 bit float. My ears are getting older every day too, so pretty soon I’ll be at 24 bit… then when I’m 80-90 years old, I’ll be back at 16 bit. I might even make it to 12-bit if I’m lucky.

If you are selling audio software, it has the potential to double your profits.

Just use it, it obviously is representative of advancement or progress otherwise it wouldn’t be there.

That’s a bit of a low blow, and cynical…but I love your Linux raves :wink:.

Read PG’s (the developer of Wavelab) response near the bottom of the page in this thread (he goes into some detail): https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=244&t=125236&p=679441&hilit=Floating#p679441

Cool, thank you, was looking for that! I’m pasting PG’s response here for convenience so I can find it more easily in the future. :slight_smile:

I think it’s important to understand that there’s 3 different things that are being referenced when people talk about 64bit in Cubase. Nordleads question was about the bit depth… not the processing precision which is being talked about in the answers.

3 different things:

The Cubase app itself is now 64bit and won’t run 32bit plug ins. (affects stability)
You can now record at 64bit float even though your interface will only record at 24bit. (affects perceived audio quality)
You can work at a processing precision of 64bit. (affects performance)

And before we all rush out to buy new 32bit audio interfaces, 32bit just means lower noise floor.
Even 16 bit is fine, if recorded with the right levels.
Not that I’m against any progress, but the benefit is minimal at best.
The new Sox samplerate conversion algo. Is also a velcome upgrade from the previous, but I doubt I will be able to hear any difference.
A daw like Cubase should and now does support those, and if nothing else gives us/me some piece of mind.
Knowing the signal won’t be degraded (as much), by any lack of rounding precision, or sample rate conversion.

this exist already?? :open_mouth:

Yes, for example the Mytek Brooklyn.



Somewhere else I read it this:


It’s too pointy and floaty. I prefer 64 bit fixed lines.

In terms of audio formats and processing, it’s about noise floor and headroom. Since 32 Bit float has 1600 dB headroom, not a problem (ever). As for noise floor, it can only matter for certain mathematical processes under specific conditions. Filter design is an example, however both FL Studio 32 and 64 Bit, already use extended precision (80 or 64 Bit) where necessary.

It’s certainly not something an end-user needs to worry about and definitely not any use as an export format.



Because they decided to bite the bullet (in terms of code refactoring) and do it for marketing and feel-good purposes. It certainly does no (audio) harm to use full 64 Bit internal processing, but it does no good compared to 32 Bit float either…

WHEN - you use 80 Bit and 64 Bit precision internally where it matters (which FL Studio does). But only where it’s necessary. Again, this is not a real issue. If you use plugins, and everyone does, this is where it matters. And plugin developers who know their stuff all use double precision internally, where it matters, but some don’t too. The DAW is not your concern here. Plugins really are.

We feel no need to shout about it.

But this is another of those no-win conversations with people who don’t understand DSP. Bigger numbers are always better, and if your number is smaller than the other guys. You will feel inferior. My favorite is watching people argue about why a -385 dB noise floor is better than a -144 dB noise floor … while listening to a file with a - 96 dB noise floor on equipment with a -80 dB noise floor > :slight_smile:



Since recording has a specific meaning. There is no 24-bit recording on the planet that makes use of 24 bits. The noise floor of the highest quality audio gear is around 18-20 bits.

non?

what is your observation?
how does this make withe the cpu meter?

It is really simple, it is for saving CPU cycles. At this point we have plugins that output 32bit float and 64bit float. Converting from one format to the other uses cpu cycles. VST2’s are always 32 bit float VST3’s can be both. Once all/ most of your plugins can output 64 bit float switching to the 64 bit engine will save some cpu (not that much though) When roughly half is 64 it doesn’t matter what you set. When most of your used plugins still output 32 bit float it is cpu cheaper to use 32bit engine.
No audio difference at all, cause when needed audio is processed at even higher resolution and then brought back to 32 or 64 bit float.
And it has nothing to do with 32 or 64 bit plugins/OS, which is only about how much ram you can use.

This is processing precision - not what the question was about.

My question was do you guys see more or less CPU being used when cubase is in 64 bit?

I see less, but I only use vst3 plugins, where I can.
Your mileage may vary.

thank you for all your input. very much appreciated

I haven’t tried it yet and I have no programming background to tell you what is going on but it’s more, so more must be better than less, when is more of anything computer related bad? More ram, more cpu, more power, more bits. It’s MORE so it must be GOOD! :slight_smile: