Cannot deactivate accidentals override

Hello

In the file I’ve attached, it’s impossible to me to deactivate the accidentals show/hide override toggle. This results in sometimes (but not always) naturals are shown when they shouldn’t. The only setting that seems to stick is to just set them to “hide”.
Bequadros.dorico.zip (827 KB)

Maybe I don’t understand…but I can toggle them or hide them in Engrave mode without a problem.

Did this file originate as MusicXML? If so, you should go into Preferences > MusicXML Import, turn off the Accidental Visibility option there, then reimport the file.

This is a fresh piece, it’s not a MusicXML import.
steveparker, I cannot, neither in Write nor in Engrave mode. As soon as I hit the toggle, it turns itself on again.

There’s definitely something weird about this project, and I can’t immediately see what’s causing it. Hopefully someone from the development team will take a look at some point.

Leo, are you getting the same as Lucas? It works completely as expected for me.

I’m getting this:

Note that it’s a nonsensical value - the accidental isn’t showing.

Steveparker, I can toggle the accidental to “show” or “hide”, but I can’t switch the blue toggle button off to get the automatic behaviour. (Running Dorico 3.1 on Windows)

That sort of thing used to occur (and maybe still does) for some types of MusicXML input, but the OP says this is a new project.

(Leo just posted the same thing, plus a movie).

Exactly that’s my problem. In my original project, not the cutdown version, the result was that most of the time when I opened the project I got a bunch of naturals in each note, which I had to delete manually, by setting the option to “Hide”.

Dear Leo,
I have had this exact type of behavior with the bottom panel yesterday… Well, it bothered me a little because it’s unexpected behaviour, but the music was well written so no problem for the output. Nevertheless, this can be problematic, and might be linked with the other problem of toggles that do not change at all until I click twice on them. Just writing this as a reminder for myself (and maybe for other Doricians that have the same behaviour)

Mine is definitely not doing that. I can show/hide and toggle without anything odd.
That’s on Windows 10.

Perhaps this is related: I sometimes have seen strange behaviours from properties, when I want to change a property, I have changed in Write Mode in Engrave Mode and vice versa.

I’ve tested it too and it shows the same behaviour (Win10, Dorico 3.1) as pianoleo showed.
BUT: once I’ve changed the enharmonics (made it a dx) and back it worked as you’d expect.
Then I was able to switch off the Accidental toggle to get the default.
Maybe this helps to investigate further…

It seems that there’s some aspect of the note’s appearance that is sticking the toggle; at least that’s my best guess. If you change the pitch of the note (eg alt-up, alt-down), it seems to reset something and the toggle is then properly toggleable. “Reset appearance” in the edit menu also seems to work, but I realize you may not want to do that on the little guys.

I confess I haven’t thought of that as a solution! I was thinking of redoing the whole stuff but I was too lazy to do it :mrgreen: Thank you for the solution!

I can tell you why you can’t switch off the toggle, but what I can’t tell you is how it got into that state. Some of you will know that when you import a MusicXML file, the properties set on items don’t behave in the same way as when you set them directly in the user interface, because the Properties panel expects the properties to be set for a specific layout, but the MusicXML import process is set up such that no layouts exist at the time the properties are set, so they end up being set globally, and hence the Properties panel gets confused when you try to remove the property. That is essentially what has happened here, though obviously Lucas says that the project didn’t originate via MusicXML import. The accidental property is set on the note globally, i.e. without reference to a specific layout as it ordinarily would be, and so you can’t turn it off in the panel.

Doing Edit > Reset Appearance will remove the property.

Thank you all and thank you Daniel for the thorough explanation. I have no idea how I reached that state, but with the solutions given in the thread I could get out of the loophole.
Thanks!