Can't create Ebm7sus chord symbol

I can’t seem to create Ebm7sus chord. (or any m7sus). Dorico keeps converting it to Eb7sus.

How do I change this behavior?


I don’t think a chord can be both minor and sus (AFIAK). That’s probably why. But you can make custom chord symbols to your heart’s content using Engraving Options, Chord Symbols, scroll to the bottom, Project Default Appearances.


I have hundreds of hand written charts from the 60s and 70s that would disagree about the existence of the m7sus. It’s also, IMO, more intuitive than writing m7add11.

But what if I don’t want to alter the appearance of a Ebm7 ?

That’s fine. Chord symbols are notoriously varied animals depending on whom you talk to. As I said, you have full control over their appearance.

Type “Ebm7sus” into the “enter a chord symbol” dialogue to add it, then modify only that particular entry.

modified Eb.png

Thanks. That seems to work okay. Though I wonder if it’s actually rewriting ebm7sus or eb7sus?
I suppose in a pinch I could just remap any chord that does not appear in the piece.

It’s mapping Ebm7sus, as long as that’s what you enter in the dialogue box. You’re essentially customizing precisely that chord entry, teaching it to Dorico.

“Hey Dorico: when I type this, you display this.”

What I’m waiting for (along with other users) is the ability to export custom libraries: chords, playing techniques, etc. The development pace to date has been brisk, so I’m hopeful.

I ran a quick test and that does not seem to be the case. Now I get Ebm7sus when I enter either Ebm7sus or Eb7sus. Dorico seems to be mapping Ebm7sus to Eb7sus before taking into consideration what I do in the chord editor. I don’t have both in the piece so I can manage, but it could be frustrating in a more complex project.

Hmm, did you also try explicitly adding “Eb7sus” to your custom list? Perhaps that would help Dorico distinguish between the two entries, rather than conflating them. I confess I’m just guessing at this point, sorry! I assumed the method above would work based on my experience.

A workaround, I believe, would be to choose which is the preferred spelling and which is the exception, and setup accordingly. Then click on the exception chords in Engrave mode and edit them manually.

Minor sus4 is a mistake.
I don’t think Dorico should foster bad practise! :smiley:

Sus4 replace the third. A chord without a third can’t neither be major nor minor.

Minor sus4 is a mistake.

That might be, but Dorico should do what the user tells it to, because it doesn’t know why the user is doing it, nor does it understand what is correct, especially in the field of chord symbol spelling, where standardization is less than universally accepted! We should each police our own selves. :open_mouth:

Which publishers use m7sus4? I find this not only wrong, but misleading. A C minor chord with an added F is not a suspended chord (because the third is there, so there is no “suspense”).

The Real Book does it right, using C-7(11), Bb-7(11), Db7sus4, Eb7sus, F7sus4, G7sus4 in Red Clay, for example. There is a big difference in chord character and function between the -7(11) and 7sus4 chords.

I tend to agree, but the point of the OP was to ask for a modified chord spelling.

That’s a point of view.
I understand standardisation is not an absolute, but there’s at least some logic that should be respected, otherwise the end result is just wrong.
if eye right anglisch de way i doo hiut now, its jost rong an schould nut be implementeed if clariti iz the gol :wink:

If I was a dev, I would certainly not work to allow mistakes in my soft…

Is a minor sus4 chord supposed to be the same as a minor (add4), thus equating it with the 11th chord?

11th chord implies the minor 7th and the major 9th, while add4 is a simple addition of the 4th…
Sus4 chord, litteraly means suspended as in “unresolved”.
Minor sus4 means that there’s a 3rd in the chord (minor), wich is immediatly denied by the “sus4” that means there’s no 3rd in the chord. Wich is just a non-sens.

meh. You can use the dictionary or not, your choice. I understood what you said and it was funny. Language is perfectly fluid and evolving whether you like it or not. Nothing is being proposed to be implemented here, the question is about customizing the appearance of a chord symbol, not about if software should cultivate certain practices.

For what it’s worth, here’s the story behind the question:

I’m using Dorico to engrave a song from the 1960s for an upcoming show. I have two versions of the song. One is a lead sheet created by the composer (a little known jazz musician from the Philadelphia area). The other is the piano chart from the associated orchestrations, done by another Philadelphian who had a long career that included orchestrations for some of the major record labels in the 1950s and 1960s.

The composer’s lead sheet uses Ebm74. The orchestrator’s piano chart uses Ebm7sus.

Did it work to add the other chord to the custom list?

You’re right and I completely agree on that: language and notation evolve.
That’s exactly why it’s good to correct error from the past! :mrgreen: