Can't get multivoice notation to work the way I would like

I’m recopying a piece for harpsichord into Dorico and am flustered by how to get several bars to work. Since harpsichord has no sustain pedal I’m building up a chord in which each note holds over the bar. The pdf example shows how I would like it to look more or less, but I cannot get the voices to line up as if they were on one stem in the 5/8 bar. This might work if I could get the D#’ stems in the 5/8 bar to flip up, but they won’t. Also the dotted quarter in the upper staff of the 5/8 bar won’t align, no matter what options I try, including swapping voices under the stems menu. There is also a non Dorico file of how I would like the passage to look. The notes also need to be tied so they play back correctly.
hpschex.zip (154 KB)
hpschex.zip (154 KB)
hpschdex2.jpg

It seems possible to me, depending on how you choose your voices. (The D# in measure 1 is a third voice with stems pointing upward.)
ties.png
Getting the dotted quarter to align with the eighth is a matter of setting the “Voice Column Index” offset on the dotted quarter to zero.
offset.png

Derek: I should have mentioned that the first example in your post was done with Sibelius 7.

A few things here. First, it is helpful to choose which voices are predominantly stem up and predominantly stem down. If the next shift+v does not bring the desired stem direction, press shift+v again. Second, there are notation setting dealing with the position of unsion voices, but even if those are impractical, you can always use “Voice column index” in the properties panel to set it to zero. I had to hide an accidental and I also used voice column index, and I flipped a few ties to get this without too much effort. I really had to think slowly for it, but I’m out of practice for keyboard writing!
Help.zip (202 KB)

Well, I see that Derrek preempted me here. But feel free to copy and paste for my Dorico score!

Thanks guys. I see the note column thing an be helpful. Claude, while your example looks good, is re-articulates some of the tied notes. This is one of the things I’m trying to avoid so I can also get an accurate playback, unless I want to add another stave and do a separte version for playback.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. Both examples in MY post were created in Dorico.

My mistake, looked just like my sib example.

But it’s done in Dorico :astonished: , and by tracing the various colors of the voices, you can probably deduce how it was done. My goal was to use as few voices as possible to duplicate your Sibelius (I was guessing it was a Finale) example.

You have to maintain the voice order thru the whole chord for playback to be correct. When all the attacks are entered, just extend each voice to its proper duration. (alt-shift-rightarrow)

I’ll try the alt shift right arrow thing. The problem I have is that you can’t always tell which voice your using. I know you can show voice colors but that 's a bit much for me I have to admit. What I have been doing is just using R key to repeat the last note of a secondary voice in a new bar and would assume I’m getting the same voice.
I like the way sibelius handled voices, you click on a note and it turns the color of the voice you’re using, then goes back to black.

Having some new hints I tried this again and this is what I came up with. It’s not ideal but it’s usable and plays back correctly.
hpschdex2.png
. If you’ll notice in b.44 second beat, the tied Bb has the stem in the wrong direction. The problem with tie chains is that you can’t change stem direction for just one note in a tie which may be necessary when voices cross.
I would also wish that in the bottom stave of bar 42 all those stems could be aligned, which again, would be possible if the stems in a chain could be forced in a different direction.
The alt shift right arrow command comes in handy for situations like this.

You can flip stem direction on individual notes in Engrave mode… also check out voice column in the properties panel for aligning voices where appropriate

Why are you making the G# a separate voice from the B in the bass clef? You don’t have to make every note a separate voice. Look at the colors of the voices in the example I posted before.

The G# is actually part of 2 voices. It needs to be both a dotted quarter and a quarter note which is part of the voice that goes to the D#, so it needs to tie to the next bar but also move to the D#. I could attach the dotted quarter G# to the B above and then add another voice of the G# to D3 but that gets to fussy.
Fratveno: the flip stems in engrave mode is a good tip, thanks.

That’s not what you showed in your original Sibelius jpg image.

That’s because it is an awkward notation and I’m trying to keep it as simple as possible. I would need both a quarter note G# and a dotted quarter G# to make the sustains work, but that’s a notation problem as it would jam too many voices into a small space and not a Dorico problem.

Which is why I asked…

I am pretty sure my solution reproduces what you started with if you print it in B&W.

The separate voices are needed for proper playback, as a voice tied to the same pitch in another voice sometimes re-articulates. The attached jpg shows how I have to notate it to get the chord in the next bar not to re sound. Ex. b is how I would like it to look, but the chord in the second bar re-articulates.
I also could not get the G# in ex. a is actually 2 voices, one dotted one not, but no matter how how much playing around I did with the voices notation options I couldn’t get them both to show. Ex b looks much nicer.
What I may end up doing is what I had to do with Sib and make one copy for print, one for play.
hpschdex a b.jpg

Dorico Team,
Richard’s difficulty has got me perplexed. Why does the tied chord in the bass clef re-sound in measures 2 and 4? Something is wrong here.
voicesTest.zip (154 KB)